I've just stumbled across this.
Tom Bruce used this as a training route for the HT550.
Looks great tbf

https://www.tombrucecycling.com/north-wales-400

Uh, gpx won't load for me.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:56 pm Uh, gpx won't load for me.

Downloaded for me but it's a 10Mb file so might take a while on slower connections.

Edit:

When I tried loading it into bikehike I got an error. Ran it through gpxstudio and the resulting export is only 3Mb in size and loads into bikehike.

summittoppler wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:34 pm I've just stumbled across this.
Tom Bruce used this as a training route for the HT550.
Looks great tbf

https://www.tombrucecycling.com/north-wales-400

Thanks for sharing this Jeff (almost forgot your name there and was feeling stressed). Not that BB200 isn't hard enough for me but I had been looking at the HT550 with a mouthwatering tongue but also realising it's most definitely out of my reach (my singletrack riding skills aren't the best). Now you've just given me something to work forward to and keep my efforts to keep going down for Karls mtb night rides at Chapel/Peaks.

I might be a few years off yet though so will aim for 2025 if I'm still about Stu... I'll email it ya though I'm not entirley sure it'll help..

Ooh, there's some sneaky bits in that

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:18 pm Ooh, there's some sneaky bits in that

You mean sneaky as in footpath bits please Stu?? The drop down Snowden and he does mention the agreed rules need to be followed or an alternate route used..

You mean sneaky as in footpath bits please Stu??

No, not at all Shaf. Sneaky as in, let's add this little loop so we can go up and over this really big hill

Looks very interesting and visits some good country…. But there seems to be a lot of road in it, and some of that not so minor.

When I get chance I’ll run it through Memory Map to try and assess how much road (minor and above)….

If somebody does that before me…

I got quite interested in this route so spent a couple of hours putting it through Memory Map.

Of the 250 miles there are 137 on the road - that’s 55% road.

Of those 137 miles 7 are on A roads, 21 on B roads, and the rest on minor roads.

So 20.4% of the 137 road miles are on A or B roads.

Longest road miles: (A,B and minor roads)
5.72 Foel Frech
4.78 Siglen
4.36 Nant Ffrancon
6.79 Llyn Padarn
8.78 Criccieth
7.78 Llandecwyn
4.10 Gilfach Wen
22.08 Llyn Vyrnwy
8.82 Buarth Yr E
9.25 Glyn Ceiriog
7.45 Llandegla

Longest A road stretch (total of 9 sections) is 1.6 miles Rhyd Ddu. Then Porthmadog 1.36 (unless there’s a cycle way across the estuary.) Then Ogwen 1.26 (wouldn’t fancy that at all).
The other 7 are all less than a mile, and 4 of those less than half a mile.

Longest B road stretch is 6.8 miles - B4396 Llanwddyn
Then 5.1 Llanarmon - Glyn Ceiriog

Of the 10600 metres ascent (34700 feet):
20300 feet are on the road. That’s 58.5%.
And… that rates as 148 feet per mile ascent…
(Off-road works out at 127 feet per mile)

For me 55% road (137 miles) is just too much. Even if there was no traffic it still wouldn’t do. I don’t like the surface. I used to have a road bike until 1991…

And there is quite a bit of uphill on the road too. It’s bad enough being on the road but being passed by a vehicle whilst you and the vehicle are ‘heavy breathing’ is just too much.

It’s a pity because there look to be some very interesting sections on it.

Having to juggle with timings to get up Snowdon is a bit of a pain (though it’s a lot better than contending with lots of walkers probably walking faster than you can ride if you’re anything like me.)

And Llandegla timings are another bit of a hassle.

I appreciate that’s how it is. Probably no better way to link the good off-road biking.

So I’ll most probably concentrate on the off-road riding… or work out linking the best off-road bits with minimal road links…
Unless somebody else does this first…

Does this set a pattern for future rides ?

I hope so. Route creators really ought to do this. So far my limited riding in Wales has been precisely this - too much tarmac…

Maybe the amount of HAB too, especially for folks like me who have injuries to put up with which make HAB twice as difficult.

(Though I agree it’s best to get out there and ride, without knowing the A to Z of a route.)

Any thoughts ?

55% seems a lot but from memory even ITTs like the YD300 are 40%+ on road. It's actually pretty difficult to get a much higher figure, well certainly south of the border. Also a 100% (or nearly so) off-road route of that length would be pretty hard you need some relief from the tech/rough stuff.

Even the BB200s have quite a lot of road in them. The off-road bits do make up for it though!

whitestone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:48 pm 55% seems a lot but from memory even ITTs like the YD300 are 40%+ on road. It's actually pretty difficult to get a much higher figure, well certainly south of the border. Also a 100% (or nearly so) off-road route of that length would be pretty hard you need some relief from the tech/rough stuff.

Even the BB200s have quite a lot of road in them. The off-road bits do make up for it though!

Some of the road bits on last years BB were rougher than some of the off road bits. They also tended to be of the cricket bat variety - i.e. they smashed you on the face as you tried to ride up them

Send me a gpx Phil and I’ll run it through…..

Facts….

Some of the roads on it are not easy (steep!). Having ridden it, most of the roads are great in fantastic countryside. No way round the ogwen valley bit but it's not too bad, pretty short and very beautiful. From memory there's no other very busy roads and almost all are very quiet. Personally, on this route I wouldn't want much more offroad as it's pretty brutal! If anyone is interested in riding it drop me an email tombruce86@gmail.com

Updated link to the route page

https://www.tombrucecycling.com/north-wales-bikepacking

Looks good that, goes to through some areas I'd like to see and the start point is relatively accessible for those of us coming from further afield (in a vaguely northerly direction).

Significant road sections are inevitable on a route of this length in this country.

Agree that having to time Snowdon right is a bit of a pain though.

13500m of climbing in 400k?
Gurgle.....
I guess you are going to hit Snowdon fairly late on so should be OK.
Quite fancy this so we'll see how next year pans out.