Entries are open tomorrow. Mates plan on entering and i thought it'd be a good entry idea...

Just the £95 plus the £50 for the tracker. I kmow it's not much but I always tried to keep my upper limit for such events £30ish...

Anyone got any thoughts on why one would wanna pay £150 for such a self supported event and why I should enter just don't wanna open up a can of worms and then feel inclined to reset my average entry fee to £100.

Sorry if it sounds really really tight

Doesn't sound tight to me at all Shaf. I don't know how organisers justify the prices for these things. A GPX track, a crappy T-shirt and a dodgy burger at the end. That'll be £120 for a days ride please .F##K OFF. And this one you don't even get a GPX track. Or you can do the GDMBR race for free.

Does look a good event this.

Agreed that £95 sounds slightly steep though. Tbf it's a fairly small entry iirc and they seem to put a bit of graft into the organising.

A mate of mine did this last year, though had to retire with a knee injury. Sounds a good event. I was tempted myself, but not at that price. My limits are probably similar to yours - I consider myself tight.

Having said that, if you want to do an organised event, self-supported or otherwise, someone's going to have to organise it, and that probably involves far more work than you realise. They're unlikely to be making a profit.

My policy is: if you don't want to pay that much to do it, don't. Move on and find something else to do.

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:12 am
My policy is: if you don't want to pay that much to do it, don't. Move on and find something else to do.

Yes. Good policy definitely. I know you'd not think anything otherwise - as we're not on STW afterall, though slagging that site off in this sentence is almost an oxymoron - but the purpose of opening the thread wasn't to criticise their setup or prices but to help convince myself. Especially since my pairs partner is sleeping on it and he's in then I'll be aswell. I suppose...

So I get 10 gpx points for that price and a meal at the end( and a cap ).
I know it's a not for profit organisation but its way more than I would pay for it ( paying to do an unsupported bikepacking route seems a bit nuts to me anyway)
Firm no from me

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:12 amThey're unlikely to be making a profit.

Especially given APN is run by a not for profit... http://www.allpointsnorth.cc/event-organiser/

The checkpoints for APN21 are on the site; Chuck 'em a tenner and ride your own route based on those?

Whilst I get some of the reactions to the cost of bike events most of them are run by enthusiasts. Very few are headed up by evil corporations. I don’t mind giving a bit of cash to the former and if they can make a few quid then crack on as more events will happen.

I’d say do it Shaf as your partner is going as well. I used to pay a similar amount (adjusted for inflation) for Polaris events.

Similarly, I can't see where the price comes from.

Although not free. The £12ish entry fee for the Bristol-Glasgow-Bristol 1600km Audax was worth every penny. An x-rated event so absolutely no support. Just a (large) brevet card, a mandatory GPS route and a the best pizza I've ever tasted back at the organisers' house. Plus enough climbing and off-road sections to keep it interesting. 10/10 would recommend

https://www.pedalution.co.uk/events/bri ... stol-1600/

Thanks all, very informative and I think the 'not for profit' has been helpful as well as aiming for this will hopefully keep training refular enough that I don't struggle too much for the bb200 (if I'm still around and I manage to get in)...

if a event is for a charity i dont mind entering and paying. it is a good was to raise money. but i think some of the new type events ( Gravel ) are a complete rip off. jumping on a fashion led bandwagon.
i have not looked at the details of this event so dont even know what it entails. but Audax rides are amazing VFM if it is your thing. ace routes a cuppa at the start, and a feed at the end. so if they can do it so cheaply, and have been doing so for years, why cant others.

edit....... i have just looked at the website for this event. it is very expensive. give me a tenner, i will plan you a ace route, and cook you a good curry for your return.

I think that once you have an event beyond a certain level of organisation (i.e beyond turn up somewhere and ride a route) then you need to have a fair few staff to organise, pay insurance, hire venues, parking areas etc. etc. and thats why the price jumps up so much. People want a reasonable wage out of it as well and not everyone can give their time away for free. In terms of VFM, I used to pay £20 for the privilege of riding my bike down a steep hill for about 4-5 mins with a possibility of one or two rides back to the top in the back of a van. This was in 1999 so £150 for a whole weekend is actually pretty good.

I think just like everything in life, we're free to choose whether we accept the price asked (either willingly or begrudingly) or we decide for whatever reason that we deem it too expensive and walk away. We all have different ideas about how much things should cost but I believe the key is often knowing how to separate cost from value and worth ... bit like a Weatherspoons breakfast*. It may appear cheap and to some, therefor a bargain or good deal. However, to others it represents a large plate full of microwaved frozen sh1te and paying three times as much for a breakfast of freshly cooked, locally produced pork products will actually seem better value



*did you know, their fried eggs actually arrive cooked and frozen?

Anyone who does fancy entering APN, I may well see you there. Only in a supportive/making cups of tea capacity though, sod riding that far in those sorts of times!

Our club organises a road sportive. As Phil says, event centre hire, insurance, St John's Ambulance cover etc. soon adds up. The cost is £37 and it just makes a small profit, the break even point is a couple of hundred riders. That's with club members providing their time and effort for free.

Perceived value is a different thing: fell runners are happy to pay a couple of quid and have a bucket of cold water as washing facilities; triathletes seemingly expect to pay a couple of hundred quid.

These events tread a fine line legally. The rules start by saying riders are totally self reliant and responsible for themselves, and then go on to point out what you must do and take. They insist on third party liability insurance, but presumably don't have event insurance.
I'm not criticising, but pointing out (again) that some organiser will someday get rinsed in court
Forestry England now charge a % of entry fee for events, but I'm guessing won't be made aware of anyone planning to ride through their land - usually not an issue, but for a paid event.....?
Once events are organised officially (insurance, medics etc) costs very quickly escalate.
Looks a good excuse for an adventure though.
If you do it Shaf, look for the off-road/byway heading NE from near the CP at Bewcastle. It goes up past Black Preston/White Preston and will take you straight through Kielder Forest, past Churnsike and on towards Bellingham, and onwards to Bamburgh. I'm tired just thinking about that stretch.......

I look on these things as an excuse to go and ride my bike somewhere I wouldn't normally go. If I hadn't entered the Moors100 or the BB200, I wouldn't have gone to those parts of the country to ride my bike, which would've been my loss.

whitestone wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:24 am Perceived value is a different thing: fell runners are happy to pay a couple of quid and have a bucket of cold water as washing facilities; triathletes seemingly expect to pay a couple of hundred quid.

Fell runners don't require numerous "lifeguards" in canoes though. The point stands though, just because something is expensive doesn't mean there is / isn't value there.

Yeah, water safety is a big part of Tri events. It's little surprise that they cost more to put on.

Looks like the organisers run several Audaxes as well. So I would hope we could trust them as good sorts

I'm really not sure there is an 'issue' with this or any event run on similar lines - there's no route and no timing from what I can see, so even to someone looking to sharpen an axe, it's quite obviously not a race. In fact, the reality is that it's very similar to someone saying 'I'm going for a ride and wondered if anyone would like to come - everyone's welcome'. If people struggle to accept responsibility for their own actions and their outcome, then I question whether these people should be allowed out unsupervised.

Johnallan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:00 am Similarly, I can't see where the price comes from.

Although not free. The £12ish entry fee for the Bristol-Glasgow-Bristol 1600km Audax was worth every penny. An x-rated event so absolutely no support. Just a (large) brevet card, a mandatory GPS route and a the best pizza I've ever tasted back at the organisers' house. Plus enough climbing and off-road sections to keep it interesting. 10/10 would recommend

https://www.pedalution.co.uk/events/bri ... stol-1600/

That looks great. I’m very sold on the idea of doing that in 2022. I’ve always fancied something like LEL but could never be bothered to jump through the necessary hoops involved in qualifying. This stripped down version looks like just the ticket.

atk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:24 am

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:12 amThey're unlikely to be making a profit.

Especially given APN is run by a not for profit... http://www.allpointsnorth.cc/event-organiser/

True, although being a not-for-profit doesn't debar them from making money from this event to fund other events/activities, though I doubt that's what's happening.

I'm not sure the audax comparison is necessarily helpful here. Audaxes are generally run on the most threadbare shoe-string and entirely by volunteers. That an organiser is willing to go to the trouble of cooking and serving a big meal at the end - the ingredients you might be paying for, the time certainly not - for the love of it shouldn't be used as a guage for what someone else is willing to do for free.

The word 'entitlement' springs to mind, but let's not start throwing that around.

boxelder wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:53 am If you do it Shaf, look for the off-road/byway heading NE from near the CP at Bewcastle. It goes up past Black Preston/White Preston and will take you straight through Kielder Forest, past Churnsike and on towards Bellingham, and onwards to Bamburgh. I'm tired just thinking about that stretch.......

That's the fun way though!

True, although being a not-for-profit doesn't debar them from making money from this event to fund other events/activities, though I doubt that's what's happening.

It wouldn't surprise me if they do to some extent. While they have the shop as a going concern, they're also heavily involved/intertwined with the local development trust, so their activities also include stuff like training up disadvantaged young people as mechanics, refurbishing bikes for asylum seekers, putting on community events etc. I think it's safe to say they don't have a load of venture capitalist shareholders who'll be expecting massive dividends from a bunch of ultracyclists though!

Well, I've entered so we'll wait and see what happens...