• New to it all and looking for advice please.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:09 pm**

Right then, I've had an email and I've been asked to copy it here so everyone can comment / offer advice / suggest kit, etc.

Hi Stuart,

I found your page a while ago when I was hunting around for information on equipment that I could adapt to Mountain Bike Camping. ( Whilst I knew about adventure cycling and have gleaned some interesting and useful info from this discipline, the questions and kit I was looking for seemed so much more specialised and niche.) I Didn’t know at the time that the term bike packing actually existed !

I remember being really inspired by your page and then, like a plonka ! I lost the site. Couldn’t remember what it was called for the life of me !

I Did quite a few random searches on Google, but nope ! couldn’t find you until eventually finding the link from Wildcat’s website ( Another name I couldn’t remember.) this week. Here I am at last and glad to have found this fantastic site that I couldn’t believe existed when I found it the first time.

Whilst I am now quite an experience trail rider and camper ( I live in Sheffield so am lucky to have Dark Peak on the doorstep ) That said, I have not yet managed to get out and try the pure bike packing experience. This is kind of ironic, as my original idea for buying a mountain bike was so I could combine my passions of being outdoors, camping and bush craft, with an exciting sport.

In 2010 I bought a Specialised Rockhopper through cycle to work as a replacement for the Carrera Kraken I’d had stolen from the year before. Even back then I had my eye on bike packing, but this was an idea, with not much practical experience. Both bikes had been equipped with racks and panniers, however I’d learned from the Kraken that cheap panniers were a false economy. They simply didn’t stand up to the rigours of daily commuting and were not water proof even with the covers provided. ( No good for camping then ). So when I bought the Rockhopper I made sure I invested in a pair of Ortilieb’s . I also invested in a converter, so I could use one as a backpack.

Whilst all this proved OK as a commuting set up, in practical trail riding terms it just didn’t work. I didn’t like the added weight and encumbrance of a rack to my trail riding, and the bike, the rack/pack set-ups were too uncomfortable and heavy to be able to carry the gear needed. This thinking was a good example of how I have learned about the importance of the correct gear and lightness and durability. That’ obviously why your site was such a find !

Due to these early experiences I have now become a complete KIT nerd ! I’ve spent quite a bit of time, energy, and money researching and equipping my ordinary trail riding, whilst I’m now well sorted in this area, there’s not been enough time, energy and spare cash around to splash out on bike packing specific gear. ( I’m still a bike packing virgin ! ) I am determined this will change this year.

Believe it or not , the Rockhopper got stolen in early 2012. ( Yes I know, lightening does strike twice sometimes, and please believe I have learned and taken all necessary security steps. The biggest lesson…decent insurance.)

I’m now riding a Whyte 901, which is brilliant, I love it and I think is going to be perfect for bike packing. In terms of trail riding gear I am really well equipped, but I’m needing to start, almost, from scratch with the bike packing.

Thanks to your site I now have a very clear idea of what I think I need to get, but that amounts to quite an expensive shopping list, that again, amounts to barriers to just getting out there and doing it !

Really excited about having a place to come to with questions and the share experiences. Would love to take part in your event, but think that may need to be a next year thing.

Right now I need a quick, dirty and cheap solution, which will probably mean using my cheap Karrimor urban 30 rucksack with a cover, to just get out and do a nights riding.

· What I could do with is tips and hints on what needs to be got when ?
· What you can and can’t do without ?
· I’d appreciate your advice on getting started ?
· Will you please publish my mail on the forum for people to comment on ?
[/quote

Just go and make yourselves a quick brew ...

Here’s my current wish list and order I think I need to get them ..

1. Decent Down Sleeping Bag ( Really like the look of the Alpkit ones ! Which one for our climate ? Down or synthetic? Anyone have any experience of Highlander Military bags ? )
2. Good Quality Sleep Mat ( Could probably manage with one our cheap one’s though bulky, not sure how I’d carry it.)
3. Tent ( Seriously considering Vango Banshee 200 have measured and will fit under top tube.)
4. New Head torch ( Considering Petzl Tikka 2 as night riding/camping option. Batteries preferred to re-charging so spares can be carried.)
5. Decent Hydration/back pack ( Contenders are Wingnut Adventure pack, Karriomor Sabre Hydro 30, or toying with the idea of Karrimor Sabre Yoke system, side pockets…anyone tried PLCE solutions or other solutions ?)
6. Frame Bag..( Wildcat ?, how many zips ? One big space or two, Are these the best ? Is making your own a seriously cost effective alternative ?)
7. Bar Carrier ? ( Really Neccesary ? Is making your own a seriously cheap alternative?)
8. Saddle Carrier ( Really Like the look of the Wildcat’s solutions, but wondering if it effects the ability to adjust saddle height, anyone using a dropper post ?)
9. Hammock ? ( ideally would love Hennessey Hammock but they are very expensive. What happens when there are no trees ? )

Here’s what I have

1. Cheap Synthetic filled Quechua Bulky Mummy Sleeping bag
2. Cheap Quechua Bulky Sleep Mat
3. Army Issue Gortex type Bivvy Bag
4. Army Issue Basha
5. Light weight Camping Gaz Mountain Stove and Billy Can ( Star Item, proven since 1995)
6. Folding wash bowl
7. Metal Drinking cup
8. 3L Camlebak Hydration Bladder, ( Currently is part of my Camelbak Mule NV pack but can be used with other packs.)
9. Tools and Multi tools and spare tubes etc
10. Light weight trail specific clothing
11. Comprehensive first aid kit (Including painkillers and stomach bug type things.)
12. Steel water bottle.
13. Good bike lights ( one is a rechargeable night riding light, very powerful.)
14. Bush craft knife
15. Bahco Lander Folding Saw ( This is bush craft must. Always carried when canoeing in case you need to cut yourself out. I have always carried in trail pack to amusement of family and friends. Then the one day I didn’t have it. I came across a downed tree across the trail. I rest my case. )
16. Ortilieb’s 6L Dry Bag
17. Para Cord and Webbing Straps

Looking forward to the banter

Answers and advice please people ... don't feel you have to answer every question singlehanded. I think teamwork will pay off here :)

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:30 pm**

Put as much of that gear which he already has into whatever he has to carry it in and go for an overnighter.

Almost instantly he will have learned about the large selection of stuff he doesn't need and what carrying system he probably needs. From there just par down the weight and bulk as time, cash and opportunity allows.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:31 pm**

Don't feel the need to buy everything all at once, make do with what you have until you can upgrade. Better to be out bikepacking with not so good stuff than stuck at home wishing you had everything on your tick list. If you start packing stuff because "you might need it" then you probably don't. The more space you have the more stuff you will take, be ruthless without compromising safety and comfort. Enjoy.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:56 pm**

Just use what gear you already have for now. Pack as much stuff as you can into the bags you have and just explore. You'll soon work out what already works, and have ideas for improvements. One of the key things when you come back from a trip is to go through your kit and ditch anything you didnt use for your next trip.

I dont think you need a huge amount of gear, just the stuff that works for you. Its the old cost/packsize/weight triangle.

Theres always stuff turning up on the classifieds, so keep your eye out for a bargin.

From the list i'd just drop 12, 15. Buy a few more dry bags (cheap as chips) and sort out your own seat and bar bags from a bit of webbing. Also see if you have anything which has more than one use, so night lights/head torch. Just take one one as dual purpose.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am**

Wow, wasn't expecting so many replies so soon to my ginormous mail ! , thank you for that;-). Some really good advice here. Realise I am simply procrastinating. Good tip about the extra dry bags and webbing straps. Do people use tents at this time of year or bivvy ?

Cheers

Karlytown

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:06 am**

Some great advice there ^. On the bivi / tent question, unless I'm out for a few nights I would just use a tarp, personal preference though. On a longer trip a tarptent or small tent would be better protection, if there's 2 or 3 of you out for a while, carrying 1 light 2 man tent is a good thing. Tarps or just a bivi under the stars are just a nicer experience imo, as long as the weather's not too bad. I like trying to make a comfy shelter from the surroundings, ie a soft+insulating fern or dry grass base, up against a natural bank or windbreak, then use the tarp to add to it if needed. If you're already good at bushcraft it's a great skill to have, I love the shelters Ray Mears makes next to the fire.. must do that sometime )

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:06 pm**

karlytown wrote:Do people use tents at this time of year or bivvy ?

You can bivi all year round, just certain weather conditions are more pleasent

Have a read through the trips section and you'll get a feel for what people get up to.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:16 pm**

Lightweight tents cost a lot compared to a tarp, money that could be spent on other stuff. Being under a tarp also seems to add something extra to the whole experience.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:22 pm**

Ray Young wrote:Lightweight tents cost a lot compared to a tarp, money that could be spent on other stuff. Being under a tarp also seems to add something extra to the whole experience.

Agreed. Although I would advise to persevere with the tarp setup if tried. The first time I tried a tarp I want convinced by it. After a fair few nights (about 6 now) I've come round to it and enjoy it now.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:49 pm**

I think it's true to say that tarps aren't for everyone but as FLV says, they need practice. I think you've also got to adopt a 'tarp mindset' on occasion.

I find that I'm usually much happier under a tarp (or tarp type structure) than I am in a tent. I like tarps in bad weather too, as there's usually much more room than there would be in a small tent. I'd rather sit out a storm under a tarp because I can cook and spread my gear out while keeping everything dry, something that's not easy in a tent.

Going back to the OP. If you were going to start investing in new gear then I'd suggest starting with the 'sleeping system' ie, sleeping bag, mat and bivvy bag, tent or whatever. Nothing ruins a trip quicker than a cold wet night* and a quality sleeping bag will quickly become your best friend. Treat it with respect and there's no reason why you won't still be using it in 20 years time. You sometimes hear people say that you can't / shouldn't use a down bag for bivvying**, that in all honesty is rubbish. If you can't manage to keep your sleeping bag dry then you've been very unlucky or you simply haven't developed the skills required to get the best from lightweight kit. Remember that all the highend gear in the world is worthless if you don't know what to do with it or how best to use it ... invest in knowledge, it weighs nowt

*Apart from 'Dan the snory man'.

**Not really here but other internet sources.

EDIT: Something I forgot to say was, try getting out with someone else. It's amazing how much easier it'll all seem/how much you'll pick up from someone who's already made the mistakes

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:57 pm**

Not been mentioned but should be. Practice packing your bike well in advance, it's amazing how time consuming it can be to get the right combo.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:07 pm**

Ray Young wrote:Not been mentioned but should be. Practice packing your bike well in advance, it's amazing how time consuming it can be to get the right combo.

Also leave some spare space. Things tend to pack bigger when you're been rained on/attached by midges, freezing to death than when you're at home.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:36 pm**

Chew wrote:
Ray Young wrote:Not been mentioned but should be. Practice packing your bike well in advance, it's amazing how time consuming it can be to get the right combo.
Also leave some spare space. Things tend to pack bigger when you're been rained on/attached by midges, freezing to death than when you're at home.

Couldn't agree more.

Posted: **Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:26 pm**

I too am a complete beginner to bikepacking. Although I cover a fair few miles on the bike, and have spent a great deal of time camping (spent 3x months in a tent round EU with wife and 2x kids last year) - Wild-camping using tarps and bivvy's is completely new to me.

I do not wish to duplicate any previous posts, but after a search and a browse, I could not get the answers I was looking for...

I am going to cycle the Via de la Plata in Spain next year, wild-camping all the way. I also plan to have a few sessions on the North York Moors and ride the Coast to Coast a few times this year for practice.

My current bike is an On One 456 Summer Season (steel). Is this sufficient, or should I opt for something different/lighter?

What tarp / bivvy / sleeping bag should I use? My current sleeping bags seem either too flimsy (2-season) or too bulky.

What frame bag / saddle bag / handlebar bags are best?

Regarding gear - I am tempted to just get pretty much everything from AlpKit. Their stuff seems of good value, and is well received by its users...

I'm on a fairly low budget unfortunately. Any help, direction, or suggestions much appreciated.

Cheers, Firmo

Posted: **Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:52 pm**

My current bike is an On One 456 Summer Season (steel). Is this sufficient, or should I opt for something different/lighter?

If you like it, stick with it. Chew rides a 456 and Inbreds (either 26" or 29" flavours) are possibly the most popular bike on here.

What tarp / bivvy / sleeping bag should I use? My current sleeping bags seem either too flimsy (2-season) or too bulky.

I think this is almost impossible to answer, everyone will have a different opinion. Weight/bulk are obviously prime considerations but so is cost. I would suggest a decent down bag and don't skimp on temp' rating ... IMO a useable 3 season UK bag needs a comfort rating of at least 0 degrees (I do sleep cold).

What frame bag / saddle bag / handlebar bags are best?

Again, everyone will have different opinions. All the stuff I have or have used has been good, these inc' items from Wildcat, Bikepack, AlpKit and Revelate. There's a few more out there too and I've no reason to think they wouldn't perform well. All the manufactures do things slightly differently, just have a look and see which details appeal.

Regarding gear - I am tempted to just get pretty much everything from AlpKit. Their stuff seems of good value, and is well received by its users...

Nothing wrong with AlpKit stuff, always good value and quality. I'd certainly consider their sleeping bags, bivvy bags, dry bags, tarps, cooking pots and possibly sleeping mats. I think it's fair to say that you could find lighter gear but the price would certainly rise.

Posted: **Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:13 pm**

What time of year you planning on doing this? A 2 season bag used with thermals and a down jacket would make it 3 season. No reason why you shouldn't bike pack on your 456. I too started on a budget, my first buys where a Vango Venom 400 down bag, about £85 in a sale ( but you might not need a bag re above), karrimor down jacket about £65 in a sale, two 13l alpkit drybags, one strapped under the bar, one on top or strapped to seat post ( no need for harnesses just yet), Terra Nova Comp 1 tarp £40 something quid and a second hand inflatable mat. This, along with an already owned backpack, pegs, poles, guys and trangia burner/pot set me up to go bike packing. Hope this helps.

Posted: **Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:23 pm**

Thanks for the sound advice! Looks like the 456 is staying. I love that bike!

I'm planning on cycling in Spain in May next year, so the weather should be relatively mild. But I want to get out and about soon on the trails around the Moors and Lakes, so I suppose I'll need winter gear for that.

Cheers Ray Young for sharing your kit list - That's exactly what I was looking for! I'll use that as a guide.

Posted: **Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:34 pm**

PS forgot to mention an Alpkit Hunka bivi bag, having used it I think the XL would be a better buy because if wear my down jacket to sleep in then the mat won't fit inside the bivi bag.
I love the Yorkshire Moors, mostly due to having gone to a private school near Robin Hoods Bay for 4 years which was set in 10 acres of woodland on the edge of the moors, I think this is what started my enjoyment of the outdoors.

Posted: **Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:21 pm**

s8tannorm wrote:
Chew rides a 456

Does everything i have ever needed from it bike packing wise

Also its never let me on big Lakes rides either

Yes, not the lightest bike around but once you load it with stuff its not going to matter that much

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:40 pm**

Hey Guys, thank you, some really great , hints , tips and advice, but I think more importantly encouragement, here !

Cheers.

I realise all that's stopping me now is time, and a route !

Annoyingly busy over the next couple of weeks, then off to spain ( Hoping to blag a Dad's day out for a rented ride in the mountains, but it's a bit exy, might not be able to pull it off.)

Definatley going to get myself a small campaign organised by the end of April though and can't wait to report back on my progress !

Thanks as well, to all of you that are urging me towards a tarp, ( I too am a Ray Mears fan ) and all the advice about sleeping bag being proably the biggest priority, that fits in with what I had in mind but was torn between that and a tent !

I think I can chance it with what I've got for now, and yes, just wear my gear in it !

At the end of that day I live near Dark Peak , 10 mins drive.. If it all goes pear I can walk home or call the missues, and then....walk home !

Thanks guys for taking the time on a newbie

Appreciated

Karlytown

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:46 pm**

karlytown wrote:I realise all that's stopping me now is time, and a route !

Annoyingly busy over the next couple of weeks, then off to spain ( Hoping to blag a Dad's day out for a rented ride in the mountains, but it's a bit exy, might not be able to pull it off.)

Most of the folks here are fighting to fit this 'hobby' into a 'normal' life and I've found that if you're determined to make it happen then it will happen.

Even if it's an after work, late evening/night ride that ends in a sleep on a hillside just outside of town with an early morning start in order to be home when the kids get up - it all counts!

Especially in the beginning when you're refining your kit - just go for it and see what happens, what you're happy with, what you want to change and eventually you'll arrive at a place where you're ready and able to head off (without too much ball-ache) for a weekend of bikepacking fun (if/when the chance arises)!

Good luck fella!

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:06 pm**

Even if it's an after work, late evening/night ride that ends in a sleep on a hillside just outside of town with an early morning start in order to be home when the kids get up - it all counts!

Agree with this. I don't think it has to be an epic to warrant sleeping out. I Know to some just riding "round the corner" and dossing out is non-sensical but it's what I can achieve, more often than not.

Bigger routes are (often) better but don't be fooled into thinking that's the only way you should get out. Mre often than not I'm just happy to be out. Also, often surprising what can be had for a cheeky doss-spot locally as well.

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