A timely article, I was woefully underdressed on yesterday's ride.

https://testedtodestruction.blogspot.co ... -wait.html

Good article, mature and intelligent writing. Thanks for sharing.

My cousin's husband had an accident on their farm - got caught in some machinery. It was an hour before my cousin who was working in the next field noticed that the tractor hadn't moved for a while. Another hour before emergency services arrived and an hour after that before he was freed.

The field he was in was next to the road in a populated area.

There's also people around the casualty to consider - easy for them to become hypothermic as well often without realising.

Worth a read

https://singletrackworld.com/2020/02/ar ... the-worst/

One of the STW journalists ended up waiting over 4 hours for an ambulance to attend an accident in Leeds.

Very useful, thought provoking first link. I've read what Tim writes for a few years and he makes a lot of sense...

Also worth reading http://www.everythingoutdoors.co.uk/hyp ... treatment/ alongside this - its from a fell running perspective, but very similar passtimes in terms of potentially being a long way from anywhere with minimal/marginal kit

On a related note:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-51794799
Inc. happy ending

PaulE wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:02 pm http://www.everythingoutdoors.co.uk/hyp ... treatment/

I've read this before, it's a good article. You could get a similar thing from bonking, you lose concentration, then do silly things and don't look after yourself

It is a bit scary how little fell runners (and bikers or walkers) take with them. It's a fine balance, too much kit and you'll end up potentially needing it. Getting out the elements helps a lot, being wet and getting battered by wind is rough. Something like a bothy bag can make a huge difference

Twenty odd years ago I had a fairly frightening wake up call in terms of how much kit I used to ride with.
Riding the Helvellyn ridge in winter with a freezing wind blowing I punctured coming down from Lower Man in the direction of Sticks Pass(something like that anyway).
I was warm riding but my clothing was insufficient as soon as I stopped. I had no spare clothing or shelter of any sort.I got so cold so quickly I couldn’t manage to fix the puncture. Luckily I eventually had sense enough to start walking and made it most of the way towards the youth hostel/ski club before some kind folk found me and helped me the rest of the way. I spent a rather embarrassed night in hospital rewarding.
Suffice it to say after that incident I always carry rather more gear than the average biker up into the hills.

A synthetic jacket, waterproof, beanie hat, gloves and a foil bag doesn’t take up that much room thesedays. It’s not like it’s the 80s and you need a rucksack to hump a few essentials like that about in. Apart from the synthetic duvet jacket you can get the rest in a jersey pocket thesedays. I tend to use my frame bag for that stuff plus a few snacks even on a day ride in winter.

It's the combination of wind, wet and cold that's the killer. Remove any one and you stand a much better chance, remove two and things just become uncomfortable rather than dangerous. "Cold" in this case means below 10C or so but not seriously sub-zero.

A bothy bag deals with two out of the three.

Of course if we are out for an overnighter then we have the advantage of having bivy kit with us so breaking an ankle (or more likely wrist or collarbone/shoulder in the case of biking) isn't quite the serious situation that it would be if we were out for a day ride without such kit which would be similar to a fell runner. In that case the question would be: "Can I put up my shelter/bivy system here?". I'm not sure I could put up a tarp one handed in a storm though, it's not something I've ever tried to do TBH.

When in Norway we did a winter biking training camp. One of the tips was to have an insulated jacket and trousers immediately to hand to put on when you stopped for more than a minute or two - you've generated the heat, don't lose it. The lead instructor had her jacket in one of her stem cells, if the jacket isn't handy then you are less likely to use it. The jacket and trousers need to be big enough to go over the clothing you are already wearing.

Perhaps we only need look at last years HT to see how pushing the limits of kit can be something of a knife edge and a change in conditions can easily push you off the edge with no way back.

RE foil blankets ... remember their insulation properties are zero. They work by reflecting radiant heat but if you're properly cold (especially if wet) you'll be radiating very little. Yes, they will reduce wind chill and help keep the rain off which will prevent you cooling further but they won't really warm you up directly.

I'm also a little cynical about foil bivy bags. They're not particularly robust (I have one) unless they're plastic backed, and even if they are, how useful are they really? I'm not convinced they'd be used unless it was a proper emergency, rather than a situation that was just undesirable. A bothy bag is more useful as you can get more people into it and it's designed to be reusable, so you can use it just in case. I had a little 10 minute break with my daughter part way down from Skiddaw just after xmas. The weather was absolutely atrocious (brutal wind, sideways evil rain, no visibility), she's only 7 so we needed somewhere to sort ourselves out before things turned worse. All fine, we had all the right kit and it's not her first time out, but I was pleased to have it. I definitely would not have got a survival style bag out just for a 10 min pick-me-up. We were on sit mats because the ground was cold and wet

I have a blizzard bag as well that is for proper winter conditions, though annoyingly I keep missing them whenever I head to the hills/mountains in winter! Crampons didn't get a run out in the Lakes a couple of months ago, and I basically just took my ice axe out for an optimistic walk

whitestone wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 am When in Norway we did a winter biking training camp. One of the tips was to have an insulated jacket and trousers immediately to hand to put on when you stopped for more than a minute or two - you've generated the heat, don't lose it. The lead instructor had her jacket in one of her stem cells, if the jacket isn't handy then you are less likely to use it. The jacket and trousers need to be big enough to go over the clothing you are already wearing.

I kept my down jacket in my (empty) seat pack in Rovaniemi so I could put it on straight away and had no excuse for not doing so

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:38 am RE foil blankets ... remember their insulation properties are zero. They work by reflecting radiant heat but if you're properly cold (especially if wet) you'll be radiating very little. Yes, they will reduce wind chill and help keep the rain off which will prevent you cooling further but they won't really warm you up directly.

I guess using it sooner rather than later will make it more effective, I.e when you’re still warm rather than waiting to cool off, shiver and then think about using it.


I run with a 6L pack, contains waterproof top and bottoms, insulated coat, foil blanket, 1st aid, gloves and hat as well as torch/map etc. My wife in the other hand will run with me in the hills with only a vest pack in, so only carries her water! Can’t get it through to her about carrying an extra layer etc if the weather changes or we have to move slow She thinks I over carry but she’s used to road running, so has never needed to carry extra as she’s only out for 60-90 minutes

My recent Dartmoor debacle was a good example, tent destroyed and I was quickly soaked, bag, all riding clothes and my sleeping stuff including down vest. I pulled my paramo trousers and jacket on and managed to generate enough heat by riding. If I’d suffered a mechanical I could have been in trouble. I was lucky that the temperature was reasonable, if I’d stuffed my riding kit into a dry bag before bedding down at least I’d have still had a dry layer, definitely something to bear in mind.

I run* with the dog. In the event of emergency we are each others emergency insulation / company / rations. Wife and family will be most upset if I made it back and the bitch doesn't.

* "run" is a very generous description of the process that is ore akin to trying to pound down lumps in the landscape and disintegrate my knees / body.

BigdummySteve wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:21 pm if I’d stuffed my riding kit into a dry bag before bedding down at least I’d have still had a dry layer, definitely something to bear in mind.

I put my riding kit in the bar bag once I've taken my bivi/sleeping bag/mat out of it. This is mainly to stop it blowing away or getting lost as I don't have a tent to keep it all inside. It's not normally to keep it dry as it's usually wet when I take it off

On last years HT550 I was lucky I made it to the bothy. One of the lads with me asked after the section around Loch ma Stac "what if one of us had turned an ankle getting round there?" At least we had bivi bags/sleeping bags so that would have helped but it would be a long time waiting for rescue. There was very little visibility due to the rain/fog so there was no way a helicopter was coming to get us.

I bought one if those SOL Escape bivvy bags last year and used it during my CL300. I was surprised at how effective it was (though I'd obviously selected an appropriate spot to use it). It's certainly my intention to take it on longer day trips for both planned and unplanned stoppages. Those Bothy Bags are also a good idea, though more suited to multi-person use. I have a reasonably light 2-person one and a bombproof K.I.S.U. that takes 4.

However, I'd say I'm pretty guilty of sometimes being under-prepared while out running. If going anywhere high/remote I'd normally take one of those foil blankets and my Berghaus "condom" waterproof, a thin hat and thin gloves. That's about it at the moment. I do have an ambition to do some longer runs that would have me revise that a little.

All this brings back to mind my 2015 attempt on the HT550, (not in the event, just pootling around on my own, nobody really knowing where I am, but I guess I like it that way ) with horrendous weather on the Thursday when approaching Corrykinloch, getting colder and colder in the horizontal driving rain... finally (just !) managing to get my Photon tent up by 7pm, wet clothes off, brew and food on, then a restless attempt at sleep, wondering when the tent would blow away. Up at 4:30am, and away for about 6 - I was a bit in dread of entering Glen Golly.

I remember turning left just before Goberguisnach Lodge at 9ish, into the unknown... not much riding but one section was eminently rideable but the wind just blew me into the ditch, and it took a full minute to extricate my foot from the mud !
It was like a storm from hell, the constant roar and whistle of the wind.... a very frightening sound that, when pushing the bike uphill against the force of the wind.

As I do nearly all of my riding alone, my security is my tent, but I realised in this situation I was knackered. Rough heather and stones everywhere and I probably wouldn’t get it up, let alone stay up.

It took me 5 hours (till 2pm) to get to the top of the Bealach Horn. Foot high waves on Lochan Sgeireach, but at least I knew I wasn’t lost... it was thick mist as well as storm winds.

When I got back home I knew I had to sus out this drama, and put a topic on here:
“Survival in Northern Scotland”.... (can’t work out how to put a link in....??)

It was our noble leader (Sorry Stu, just joking ) who suggested a ML Designs Trailstar, as being best able to withstand storms, and I ordered one.

It came September 2015, and the first thing I did was to take it up on the moors near here.
The challenge was to get it up in foot high heather (in full bloom ), and I managed that in 10 minutes.

So in a survival situation it is very important to get out of the wind and rain.
I have my own definition of killer weather, and it’s not sub zero, it’s probably +3 and very windy, and wet wet wet.

When you are very fatigued and you have no survival gear you have to get off the hill and out of the wind. Even look for shelter wrapping up in the heather, if it comes to that...

But if you get your shelter up, you’re out of the wind and the wet, and you stand a good chance.

I carry a small sliding blade in a plastic sheath, and once out of the weather can use it to cut enough heather to get my inner tent up, and use the heather to reinforce the inside.

All this is only possible if you have decent pegs, so I carry enough lightweight 9inch pegs, MSR, and Easton, weighing about 14 grams each.

In heather it can be difficult to get pegs in but it’s important you do get them in, otherwise in a storm...

So thanks Richpips for the pointer.

(Many yeas ago I did the Three Peaks Fell Race, and one poor guy lost his way in the mist from Ingleborough, only 5 miles to the finish, and mainly downhill.... he didn’t make it to the finish, and rescue was called out, but didn’t find him.
He was found dead the following morning having strayed a bit from the top. The hypothermia got him....

You just have to know that when you’re up against it you must get off the hill..

Really good post Rich, the 'sit down, wait' idea is a simple message.

That and the thread here reminds a little me of a book I read a while back - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/677 ... ngorm-john
Recommended.

I've been a big fan of primaloft since two of us got caught by a freak sleet and hail storm 3000m up in Taiwan on a trip. It was just a road-packing trip. Usually ~30 degrees there towards the coast. You'd expect it to be a bit colder up there (well, 20 degrees colder perhaps) but hadn't banked on being that wet and cold at all, and then realising that we'd pedalled up and couldn't freewheel down because the windchill and spray was just too much. Luckily there was a refuge not far away, it was a lesson learned. If the refuge hadn't been there a primaloft jacket wouldn't have changed things that much but if both of us had them we'd prob have been able to freewheel downhill slowly for an hour or so to shelter. I'll take a down jacket at times but feel a lot better prepared for the worst with the synthetic equivalent.

I have my own definition of killer weather, and it’s not sub zero, it’s probably +3 and very windy, and wet wet wet.

Agreed, it soaks in and feels much worse than snow, at least assuming we're not talking about being a long way below zero.

Interesting stuff!

Made me think and I realise now that I've become a bit flippant with my kit over the last few years.

Even with the day riding where I live it's entirely possible to find yourself in deep doo-doo very quickly and I historically have always carried a healthy amount of kit with me on my remote rides.

But assessing my usual kit choices these days I think I've taken my eye off the ball and could, quite easily, come a cropper via the combination of a few (relatively minor and not overly unlikely) factors.

Hmmm, a bit of a rethink is in order.

Unless I'm on the bouncy bike I usually have at least one two bits of bikepacking luggage on my bike at any one time so no real excuse not to pack a bit of extra kit in order to increase the likelihood of being better able to cope if/when things go pear-shaped on the hill.

And if nothing else it's all good acclimatisation for riding fully loaded for future bikepacking trips, no?

Thanks for the wake-up call