Hi...I recently found this forum after looking into Bikepacking for a new challenge this year. I've been enjoying doing longer rides (road mainly)and getting out on the mountain bike a lot more.

Anyway, i'm after some advice ref camp/overnight gear. I'm hoping to get enough miles in to enter the WRT (or WRT LIte) then if i'm ok the Bearbones 200 later in the year.

I have tendency to over research a little (ok a lot!!) then confuse myself..ok that's not hard!! :D

Most of the kit i'll be trying to pick up used as the budget is restricted. (I've been scouring this and other forums) So overnight's from April to Oct....

On a separate note, i'm looking to do a few overnight bike/camping trips with my son, but i think that needs to be tent based....so some kit may have to double up...

Kit so far is a Alpkit 180 base mat, and MSR pocket stove.

I assume rest of list could be :
Tarp (?)
Tent - this will probably be cheap 2 man for son and me
Bivvy bag
Rucksack/Bike rack/Saddle pack
Sleeping bag - (i've looked at Snugpak Chyrsalis 2 as good budget option)
Meths stove for the 2 events (although that source is already sorted - )

Any other advice greatly appreciated....

Research can only be a good thing, it can get confusing but sooner or later you'll see the wood for the trees ... the secret is not having spent ££££ before you do

Your list looks okay, I don't know much about snugpack bags so can't really comment but I would say that a sleeping bag is your most crucial bit of kit, so never skimp.

A cheap tarp of ebay will serve well enough, it won't be as light or packable but it'll only cost a fiver.

A 13L drybag on strapped to your bars and a small(ish) rucksack should be enough to carry your stuff. There's mixed feelings about racks but my own thoughts are not to bother.

Just remember, it's not about suffering (although it always get mentioned) it's about making yourself as comfortable as possible with minimum gear/weight. Much can be achieved with knowledge, skill and the correct mindset rather than the latest, most expensive kit.

Echo Stu's thoughts about sleeping bags. What ever kit i take out with me i always use the same sleeping bag, but rotate everything else according to the conditions. My Alpkit PD400 works very well as a 3 season bag, and with a bit of thinking works very well in winter unless the temps are silly cold. Resonably priced/weight/pack size

I'm Leeds based so if you fancy getting out, give me a shout. I've got spare bits of kit you could borrow as well.

Alpkit are great for drybags, xtra ones with loops strap on really well and the lighter ones are good inside other bags for keeping things dry. Plus they are cheap. I'm very pleased with their TI mug and Lhoon too.

You know you are in trouble when you start a spreadsheet

Welcome!

Gear choice is a very personal and dependant on budget. I'll offer up some things that i've learnt in the last year.
Riding with a heavy rucksack sucks. Look to carry as much on your bike as possible.
I wish i'd bought a 180cm mat instead of a 120cm. Have since replaced with a full length mat. Cold legs at 3am is miserable.
Cheap sleeping bags are cheap for a reason.
Alpkit is my friend.
If you have to think, "do I really need this" you probably don't.
500g extra for some comfort in terms of shelter, warmth or morale is worth it. Bulk is far more important than weight.
Be realistic on distance. I thought i'd easily cover 60-70 miles a day on the WRT last year. The ridiculous amount of kit I was carrying meant 35-40 was more realistic.
Think outside the box. If you don't need hot food or a brew, you save yourself carrying cooking equipment - that being said a ti mug, 8g stove and coffee sachet weigh naff all. Chuck in a dehydrated meal and you're living the dream.

Cheap down jackets.

Full length mats.

Dry bags.

Ti pots (and the Karrimor Ti gas burner for c.£15).

A good down pit.

Anything can be used as a tarp / ground sheet. You just have to be prepared to carry it.

Merino hats and socks (On One).

Gear on the bike and if not in a Wingnut.

Hammocks.

Some of these are sensible and useful, some of them are just a route to poverty (hammocks ).

I've got a rack on my Fargo. First test, pre-El-an Back was to deliver some Xmas pressies. Tin of quality street, few bottles of wine & beer, etc. All seemed fine until about a mile into my ride when I stood up for a bit of oomph up a hill and it felt like the bike was going to keel over! Note to self, avoid a high centre of gravity. For the actual event I restricted the rack to light but bulky items and I then found I couldn't fit my rear light to my seatpost and it be seen!

Rucksack wise I normally ride with a camelbak cloud walker but if the weather is likely to be grotty the alpkit gourdon is great. I like the one with a window in as finding my predominantly black kit in a black bag is right faff.

Are you thinking of doing any night riding? Either way a headtorch is handy. Alpkit again.... :D

Welcome!

I've got/had a good few Snugpak bags and I'll say that they're good value but be very cautious of trusting the temp ratings.

I've got a Softie 6 (Kestrel?) which is rated comfort 0°c (limit -5°c) which I can only describe as b**locks!

I'd say it's good down to about 10°c (with a barely tolerable limit of about 5°c). But.....I do tent to sleep on the colder end of the spectrum.

I've also got one of their Traveller bags which is lovely and light/small but impossible to stay warm in in anything other than genuine summer temps.

I don't have the anti-rucksack bias that others have but I tend to try and pack bulky but light items on my back which saves space on the bike without loading my back up with heavy items.

If I'm using my winter bag then that goes on my back - I don't use the compression sack but just let it loft and fill-out the bag - if you're going for a budget sleeping bag then this might work for you as you're unlikely to get something teenie-tiny for less than big money.

Hopes this helps a little.

Gairy.

Wow thanks gents. Some great advice....Really appreciated....
s8tannorm...thanks. I have a couple of Xped bags, biggest is 8l, so a 13l would be a good idea for the bars. My current day pack for bike is Berghaus - approx 12 litres (its an 8 +4)

I'd really like a Saddle pack/frame bag (Wildcat or similar), but at the moment the money will have to go in the sleeping bag/other items!

chew - Thanks for the advice. I may take you up on the offer of a ride, i'm based near Bingley. If you fancy a run any Sunday, let me know.
Also to look at some kit... :D
The Alpkit gear looks really good.

I looked at the Snugpak based on advice from the local outdoor shop - http://shop.backcountryuk.com/index.asp (they're all hikers/climbers). They're not as compact maybe.
It's still not cheap at £80 but maybe the 400 is worth the extra investment. Is down worth the extra..? I'm assuming for the pack size, they can't be beaten compared to synthetic? And what sort of rating is best for the bag (based on April to Oct use - the bag i looked at is 2° comfort / -3°C extreme) ?

Dan - thanks for the advice..especially the bulk/weight...the meths stoves look a good investment...for normal day rides also.. :)

Cheekmonkey...thanks also (i'm looking for a cheap down jacket..useful normally also)...but what's a Wingnut ? A waist pack??

I like to buy lots of gear used if i can, it can work out good value...!

The meths stoves are a good idea...or stick with my MSR Pocket rocket for now?

Just working out if can order the bearbones stove and alpkit mug, without it showing on the 'fiscal controller's' radar....

IMO down for the pit is well worth it, weight and pack size (as mentioned by others) saving is significant and allows you to go to lower temps. They are sod all use when wet though (sorry, you might know this already) so some care and attention are needed when using them. Then again, when bivvying it's always worth paying close attention to not getting wet Gairy makes a good point about rucksacks, it's the weight that's the killer, not the presence of the bag itself. Wingnuts are a particular design/brand of pack that are more like army webbing belts, slung low around the hips rather than up high on your back like the average Camelbak. They seem remarkably "light" despite being able to be jammed with a rake of gear.

If you're a fairly "warm" person this is a remarkable deal for a lighter style down jacket:

http://www.fieldandtrek.com/karrimor-li ... ens-443081

I've been very happy with one recently.

And this is a remarkably lightweight, zero hassle gas option (fancy Ti as well) for a stove (small canister plus stove, plus brew makings all fit inside an Alpkit Mytimug). Make a little pot cosy (Ti loses heat ratehr quick) and you're on a winner. Improvise a windshield out of boots or make one from scrap ally foil (thick). Ultimately an 8 or 22g stove and fuel will be lighter and more compact but for less faffage I like the gas option.

http://www.fieldandtrek.com/karrimor-x- ... 012-787169

Thanks Gairy...i posted my reply before i read your post, That's really useful info/feedback on the Snugpak.
On paper they look good value, and of course you never know what they're like in action until you've bought them.

I'd thought that the bag in the pack...as you say it's light...

I know when i used to commute regularly by bike, the pack was awful if it anything but clothes in it...

Johnnystorm- the Gourdon look's really good....

I'll have to keep an eye on the classifieds.... :D

The tarp....does that need to be anything special for now (material wise what should it be)

The DD tarps again looked good value (and is maybe an investment)...but also the cost start's to rise....

Really appreciate the advice....

And what sort of rating is best for the bag (based on April to Oct use - the bag i looked at is 2° comfort / -3°C extreme) ?

There's such a massive potential for different temps between Apr and Oct, so it can be tricky. In all honesty I'd consider the above bag as '2 season' which really means you're likely to be cold in anything below 5 degrees, if you're hungry, cold, tired or damp it might not even be that.

Synthetic insulation loses it's properties over time, down does too but to a much smaller degree. Even a good synthetic bag only really has a service life of 5-6 years, there's people using well cared for down bags that are 20+ years old. You'll hear people say that synthetic bags are warm when/if they get wet ... they're not, any wet sleeping bag is a miserable place to spend the night no matter what it's made of. Down is fine for bivvy duties, just take care of it and treat it like it's your best friend, because it is Keep your eyes open as good S/H down bags do turn up for sale.

Cheap down jacket: http://www.fieldandtrek.com/Mens/Jacket ... wn-Jackets the Karrimor branded stuff is much better than the price implies.

EDIT: CM beat me to the jackets

SECOND EDIT: DD tarps are pretty heavy, silnylon will be a much better bet. I'd look for a S/H AlpKit bicycle or possibly an Integral Designs SilTarp.

I'm using that karrimor ti stove too + 100g canister in an alpkit ti mug and there is still room for a fire steel and teabags. Perfect little gas setup for me. I don't really trust myself not to burn the tent down with meths!

I seem to be the loan voice against down around here
Synthetic gear is not quite so light or compact packing but it's still pretty good when wet. My Patagonia Nano puff jacket can be worn under a waterproof and not turn into a sweaty mess like a down jacket would.

My real motivation is ethical though since sythetic gear tends to be made from recycled plastic bottles whereas down is 'harvested' from live birds repeatedly and I couldn't sleep at night knowing I was responsible for that.

Sorry turned into a rant there, peace and love to all men and that...

Shawn
'resident vegan freak'

arthurdent wrote:I may take you up on the offer of a ride, i'm based near Bingley. If you fancy a run any Sunday, let me know

Just give me a shout. Need to get the miles in so always looking for an excuse to get out. Once you've got some basic kit and the weather improves we can sort out a trip. I've got a spare bivi and tarp you could borrow.

arthurdent wrote:It's still not cheap at £80 but maybe the 400 is worth the extra investment. Is down worth the extra..? I'm assuming for the pack size, they can't be beaten compared to synthetic? And what sort of rating is best for the bag (based on April to Oct use - the bag i looked at is 2° comfort / -3°C extreme) ?

Plenty of praise for the PD400
http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB ... f=7&t=1551
Depends on your budget really. Its worth understanding the temp limits. Comfort means thats when you'll start to feel cold. Extreme means you wont die, but you wish you had :?

arthurdent wrote:but what's a Wingnut ? A waist pack??

Great packs but one to skip if you're on a budget.

My real motivation is ethical though since sythetic gear tends to be made from recycled plastic bottles whereas down is 'harvested' from live birds repeatedly and I couldn't sleep at night knowing I was responsible for that.

http://www.alpkit.com/colab/notes/ethic ... ing-part-2

Alpkit have some articles about this issue - apparently they source it from Chinese suppliers who harvest from dead animals. I guess that won't make much difference if you're a vegan though.

For synthetic bags -the mountain hardware lamina 20 seems to be a good compromise for weight, price and warmth (3 season). Cotswolds currently have it discounted to £65.

I also set up on a restricted budget and tend to bivi between the months you mention. I bought a discounted karrimor down jacket (can't remember how much i paid) and a vango venom 400 down bag in a sale for about £85 and I'm very happy with them both.

Search for "Tenth Wonder" on eBay and dedicated web page. They do some reasonably priced tarps though worth checking weights.

Now that there has been plenty of sensible advice, I can say that a couple of pints of beer, some peanuts, a dressing gown and a towel are all you really need for good trip.

Tanglefist wrote:

Alpkit have some articles about this issue - apparently they source it from Chinese suppliers who harvest from dead animals. I guess that won't make much difference if you're a vegan though.

Well done to alpkit for thinking about it and making a statement unlike a lot of other brands. Hungary does seem to be the worst offender but that is a bit of an unconclusive statement from 2008.

Not much I can add to above,lots of good advice. Inspiration for riding with your son:

http://aaronteasdale.blogspot.co.uk/sea ... 20outdoors

You don't need to go far, it would be a great adventure to the local woodland for a kid.

Blackhound wrote:Not much I can add to above,lots of good advice. Inspiration for riding with your son:

http://aaronteasdale.blogspot.co.uk/sea ... 20outdoors

You don't need to go far, it would be a great adventure to the local woodland for a kid.

Good recommendation for that blog and spot on advice about not needing to go far. I read one of AT's articles in STW or MBR and thought it was pretty good. Look forward to reading the rest on the blog.

I've taken my boy (7) out a couple of times with hammocks up to Norwood (on the Pateley Bridge road). Loved it (although I'll be waiting for the weather to warm up a bit.). Must link to some of the photos on FB when I can get access

Blackhound - thanks for link. Just had a quick look but will read fully tonight.

Cheekymonkey. I wanted to do a few trips last year but lots of reasons not to got in the way. I will defineately do some when the warmer weather comes.

That's some good advice about local...there's some good location near home. Did you mainly use a Tarp bivvy/hammock...or tent ?

So far I always hammock. There's no "right" or "wrong" about it, just various factors of gear, cost, opportunity etc.