ok, following on from my thread about being cold in my 3 season bag i've now negotiated with mrs barney and providing i can get a resonably priced one i can get a new winter bag

i've had a good look trawl on tinterweb and been to my local outdoor shop (were i get a decent 10% discount for being a good customer) and i think i like the look of the mountain hardwear lamina 0 (WEIGHT: 1.69kg TEMPERATURE RATINGS: -5C comfort/-12C limit/-31C extreme). Appreciate it's heavier than a down bag but they'll be a trade off in that i wont be taking all the extra clothes i do with my current bag.

http://www.snowandrock.com/mountain-har ... duct/12679

before i part with any cash i just thought i'd ask you more experienced guys if it looked a decent buy for £120

cheers

Hi Barney, I have a Lamina -7 bag that I use for snow holing when ski mountaineering here in winter and it's fine. For a synthetic bag rated so low I am amazed at how small it packs.
To be honest a good down bag rated that low will be a little over the 1 kg, unless you want to pay an insane amount. In winter I tend not to worry about that last 500 gm!! Though some do.
£120 sounds good to me.

Gari

I always hear good things about the Lamina bags, so don't imagine you'd go far wrong.

For £20 extra, the AlpKit SkyeHigh 600 might be worth a look, similar temp ratings but lighter and it'll pack much smaller. Look after it and it'll outlast any synthetic bag by years

£120 for a synthetic bag that will loose its loft within 5-10yrs isn't that good an investment imho. Unless you 'need' synthetic I would go for down everytime.

Have you considered 2nd hand? I picked up a PHD Minim600 for £100 last year. I also bought a down summer bag from here that must be at least 20yrs old and still lofts beautifully which I fully expect my 4yr old to be still using it into his teens.

Outdoormagic has a well used classifieds forum.

Just to throw a spanner in the works ... how about a quilt from Enlightened? A 6' Revelation X rated at -7 will cost you about £140 delivered to your door. It'll weigh well under a kilo, pack down to not much and last 20 years plus if cared for

to be honest i've not got any experience of "bivi quilts", at the risk of sounding like a numpty does it only go over you i.e. what are you lying on or do you wrap it round and therefore underneath yourself?

i'm just trying to find the best comprimise of cost/pack size/warmth which so far does point towards a synthetic bag

to be honest i've not got any experience of "bivi quilts", at the risk of sounding like a numpty does it only go over you i.e. what are you lying on or do you wrap it round and therefore underneath yourself?

The idea behind a quilt is ... whatever insulation your bag has on the bottom is pretty useless because you're compressing it, if it's not serving any purpose it's wasted. A quilt removes this redundant insulation. There's enough width that they can be tucked under you, they can also 'fastened' to a sleeping mat so they don't move about in the night ... not that I ever bother.

Your sleeping mat should be the major insulating layer beneath you ... what sort of mat are you using?

s8tannorm wrote:

Your sleeping mat should be the major insulating layer beneath you ... what sort of mat are you using?

Again limited to a budget I've got an Alpkit Numo, its comfy and packs well but perhaps you're going to say it's not the best insulating mat for the Winter? :!:

If so any ideas ? Can't really buy new mat and bag, would putting the mat inside something like a sleeping bag liner make any difference or is that just silly.

Apologies for lots of numpty questions, its just I dont want this to be a summer only hobby.

Cheers

Bulky, but a ccf pad from go outdoors costing £5 coupled with the numo will be enough to up the R rating meaning you can use a quilt.

Again limited to a budget I've got an Alpkit Numo, its comfy and packs well but perhaps you're going to say it's not the best insulating mat for the Winter?

Sorry Barney, you're right. The Numo is nice and comfy but doesn't contain any insulation, if the ground's cold then the air in the mat will transfer your body heat to the ground very quickly. Now the good news ... pop your mouse over to Field and Trek and buy one of these - http://www.fieldandtrek.com/campri-foam ... 012-782135 - it's much bigger than you need, so cut it down to torso length and trim the width a bit. Use it under your Numo and your nights will be cosy and warm.

Obviously they're a little bulky but a trimmed one, wrapped round whatever you carry on your bars shouldn't really be an issue.

EDIT: beaten to it

I see the Numo has an estimated R value of 2.5. I wonder if that's a touch optimistic, every other non insulated air mattress seems to have an R value of 1.

To remain warm and for your body temp to remain stable (no heat loss to the ground) you really need a pad / combination of pads with an R value of 5 if the ground temp is 0c.

Most CCF pads (7mm - 8mm thick) have an R value of between 2.5 and 3.

But the Numo is insulated Stu?

The older neoair(lime green) has an R rating of 2 so the numo being insulated wouldn't be far off that figure of 2.5.

Sorry my mistake the Numo does have insulation ... so an R value of 2.5 would seem about right, however it's still not warm enough to keep you cosy in winter

The Numo has a thin layer of insulation around the area where your torso would probably be on the mat. You can see it when you hold a red one up to the light.

Whether it provides any noticeable insulation in the real world ............

My gut feeling (i.e. I've not slept on mine in the cold yet) is I'd not like to use it as a winter mat. Certainly not as the only thing beneath me and the ground. Other's views and cold tolerances may vary.

If it were me I'd go down bag (or quilt) then as money dictates either a "better" pad or a Numo / CCF sandwich.

Secondhand and classifieds are a great way to eke out a budget. Only you can decide whether you're comfy with sleeping in another man's pit

thanks guys, lots to think about