As Slacker says: if you have the space then you think along the lines of "what can I fill it with?"

The trick to travelling light is knowing what you can get away with leaving behind - it's called experience. It's a constant re-evaluation of what worked, what didn't, what you used, what you didn't use (and haven't used on any trip), etc.

In my youth I did a lot of Alpine climbing, since you have to carry everything you make sure that what you are carrying is what you need and not what you think you might need. As a result, apart from a couple of big winter climbs where everything is bigger and bulkier, I only ever needed a 30 litre rucksack. Yet people insist that there is no way that they get all their kit in to anything less than a 50 litre sack, the reason? They are taking too much kit. Sure, there's a minimum but it's a lot less than you'd think.

Maybe get a compression sack for your sleeping bag so that it doesn't take up as much space. When packing make sure that there's no empty space such as pans or cups. Little things like that can add up (or down).

whitestone wrote:As Slacker says: if you have the space then you think along the lines of "what can I fill it with?"

The trick to travelling light is knowing what you can get away with leaving behind - it's called experience. It's a constant re-evaluation of what worked, what didn't, what you used, what you didn't use (and haven't used on any trip), etc.

In my youth I did a lot of Alpine climbing, since you have to carry everything you make sure that what you are carrying is what you need and not what you think you might need. As a result, apart from a couple of big winter climbs where everything is bigger and bulkier, I only ever needed a 30 litre rucksack. Yet people insist that there is no way that they get all their kit in to anything less than a 50 litre sack, the reason? They are taking too much kit. Sure, there's a minimum but it's a lot less than you'd think.

Maybe get a compression sack for your sleeping bag so that it doesn't take up as much space. When packing make sure that there's no empty space such as pans or cups. Little things like that can add up (or down).

Again thanks to everyone for the advice, it's really, really useful!

The sleeping bag is in a compression sack and compressed to the point that I think I'm either going to rip the straps or burst a blood vessel trying. It's synthetic so only goes so small.
Again, if you check the first post I'm all ears with regards to what I can throw out of the list. I'm thinking the meths stove is now a necessity, the gas stove components don't seem to weigh much individually but stacked together it all adds up. I'm thinking a meths stove, little squirty bottle all inside an AlpKit MightyMug. I would have put it all in a stemcell, but due to the CX bikes geometry I'd be whacking it with my knees I think.

Slacker wrote:

It can be either. Not the most robust but a good budget starter.

Just reading this and it sounds like it could be a go-er! http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co ... y-bag.html

Cheers for that.

Talking of travelling light. I'm thinking I'll leave the sun lotion at home. =/

I think you're right and upgrading your sleeping bag will make the biggest difference to your current set-up and also open the door to future changes.

I've played about with the majority of bikepacking luggage and each manufacturer has their own strengths but none of it is bad kit ... It all does what it's designed to do. I think the maximum capacity afforded by soft luggage is between 25l and 30l. If you need more (outside of winter) then chances are, you're carrying too much (or what you have is much too bulky) ... it doesn't mean you can't get out there and enjoy yourself, it just means there's a few more compromises to consider.

Just had a quick skim through your blog ...

Could you sew yourself up a frame bag? Wouldn't have to be anything fancy, i.e. velcro fastenings rather than zips, but you could put some of the heavier pieces of kit in that which would improve the weight distribution.

I notice you've compared the Vango vs a Tesco (didn't know they did sleeping bags) bag and gone for the Vango despite its bulk and weight. In a separate post you noted silk liners. Personally I'd have gone for the Tesco with a silk liner, both warmer and less bulky, it also gives you more options - on warm nights you wouldn't need the liner, etc.

I think at this point the best advice is to wait until it warms up a bit and head out and see how you get on.

whitestone wrote:Just had a quick skim through your blog ...

Could you sew yourself up a frame bag? Wouldn't have to be anything fancy, i.e. velcro fastenings rather than zips, but you could put some of the heavier pieces of kit in that which would improve the weight distribution.

I notice you've compared the Vango vs a Tesco (didn't know they did sleeping bags) bag and gone for the Vango despite its bulk and weight. In a separate post you noted silk liners. Personally I'd have gone for the Tesco with a silk liner, both warmer and less bulky, it also gives you more options - on warm nights you wouldn't need the liner, etc.

I think at this point the best advice is to wait until it warms up a bit and head out and see how you get on.

All the research I did pointed to the fact the silk liners are very hit and miss as to whether they really do anything other than keep the bag clean. The Thermatex blanket looked good, I might try the crappy tesco bag in the garden and see how frozen I am one morning.

I've found that having a "snug" sleeping bag helps as the moving around whilst you are asleep doesn't force as much air out - your body has heated this air up so when it's replaced by cooler air you then have to heat that up again. A snug bag doesn't eliminate it but certainly helps.

Other things that help are:

• Get your bag unpacked early so that it has time to loft up.
• Get in to your sleeping bag warm rather than cooling down then getting in. This may mean doing some exercise immediately prior to going to bed.
• Don't overdress as this can compress the bag's insulation - i.e. don't go too snug!

Going off at a bit of a tangent, one other thing is that whilst there are obvious benefits in having compact and lightweight kit, unless you are in a race then going a bit slower can be more rewarding than beasting yourself head down to get to a destination

Just saved myself 260g. Bought some OS map tiles for my phone (ViewRanger) so I'll use that as a backup for my main GPS rather than my old chunky eTrex.

ootini wrote:I've just done some quick calcs, based on Cost, Weight, Max storage capacity.


My rack and bags = £30, 2,500g, 30l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £1/litre
g/litre = 312g/litre
Which is obviously, cheap, but heavy.

The Wildcat Gear Tiger = £75, 190g, 8l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £9.37/litre
g/litre = 24g/litre

The Apidura regular seat pack = £85, 400g, 17.5l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £4.86/litre
g/litre = 22.8g/litre

The AlpKit Koala = £65, 230g, 13l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £5/litre
g/litre = 17.7g/litre

So based purely on the figures above it looks like the Koala is the most weight effective seat pack, but my rack and panniers are the most cost effective method, but obviously there's more to life than just cost and weight such as build quality, availability etc.
Interesting though.

You don't need to spend anywhere near that to reduce weight - just get 2 Arlok xtra 12 liter dry bags and strap one to the bars and one to the seatpack. You'd then have 24L of storage space for less that £25.

I've got both the airlok xtra and the airlok tapered seatpack and to be honest, the tapered one is a pain to pack - the tapered nature tends to push the load back on itself so it ends up compressing against the seatpost whereas with the standard airlok, it seems easier to jam stuff into the corners. I don't think the tapered is 12 liters either as I can seem never pack the same amount of stuff into it as the standard one.

Less weight, also = less energy required to propel yourself = less food required, ergo spend less on food and make savings

We could do some actual maths to work out the differences and put some figures to it, but I can't be bothered right now

rudedog wrote:

ootini wrote:I've just done some quick calcs, based on Cost, Weight, Max storage capacity.


My rack and bags = £30, 2,500g, 30l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £1/litre
g/litre = 312g/litre
Which is obviously, cheap, but heavy.

The Wildcat Gear Tiger = £75, 190g, 8l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £9.37/litre
g/litre = 24g/litre

The Apidura regular seat pack = £85, 400g, 17.5l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £4.86/litre
g/litre = 22.8g/litre

The AlpKit Koala = £65, 230g, 13l
Therefore cost per litre, and weight per litre=
£/litre = £5/litre
g/litre = 17.7g/litre

So based purely on the figures above it looks like the Koala is the most weight effective seat pack, but my rack and panniers are the most cost effective method, but obviously there's more to life than just cost and weight such as build quality, availability etc.
Interesting though.

You don't need to spend anywhere near that to reduce weight - just get 2 Arlok xtra 12 liter dry bags and strap one to the bars and one to the seatpack. You'd then have 24L of storage space for less that £25.

I've got both the airlok xtra and the airlok tapered seatpack and to be honest, the tapered one is a pain to pack - the tapered nature tends to push the load back on itself so it ends up compressing against the seatpost whereas with the standard airlok, it seems easier to jam stuff into the corners. I don't think the tapered is 12 liters either as I can seem never pack the same amount of stuff into it as the standard one.

I've though of this, but unfortunately the cable routing up front means fitting a dry bag to the bars will be a nightmare, I'll post a pic later to explain. How do you orient the dry bag to fit it to the seat post?

I just crush my cables. Never really given it much thought. :D

ootini wrote:
I've though of this, but unfortunately the cable routing up front means fitting a dry bag to the bars will be a nightmare, I'll post a pic later to explain. How do you orient the dry bag to fit it to the seat post?

Like this :




The trick is to pack it as tight as possible so that it doesn't compress when you tightnen the straps - you can see from this pic that you can get it pretty solid and the width isn't really an issue.



Some people use a cheap set of bar ends moved inboard and pointing down to keep the front dry bag away from cables.

rudedog wrote:

ootini wrote:
I've though of this, but unfortunately the cable routing up front means fitting a dry bag to the bars will be a nightmare, I'll post a pic later to explain. How do you orient the dry bag to fit it to the seat post?

Like this :




The trick is to pack it as tight as possible so that it doesn't compress when you tightnen the straps - you can see from this pic that you can get it pretty solid and the width isn't really an issue.



Some people use a cheap set of bar ends moved inboard and pointing down to keep the front dry bag away from cables.

Thanks for that, are they just the standard AlpKit Airlok 13l bags? https://www.alpkit.com/products/airlok-xtra-13-litre

With all this in mind, I'm going to have a re-think about the sleeping bag. Maybe consider taking the cheap sh**ty Tesco bag and combining it with a thermal liner / thermal base layer. Reckon that would still come in lighter and smaller than the Vango.

I know this might be like asking how long is a piece of string, but if a bag is rated to 12*c as is, any theories on how much lower you could comfortably go by adding a thermal liner or a base layer? I tend to sleep slightly warmer than most, but obviously that's not exactly scientific data.

I know this might be like asking how long is a piece of string, but if a bag is rated to 12*c as is

Is that a comfort rating, lower comfort rating / transition rating?

If it's a comfort rating, then outside of the 2 weeks of proper summer we're likely to see, I'd say that even with a liner you'll be cold.

s8tannorm wrote:

I know this might be like asking how long is a piece of string, but if a bag is rated to 12*c as is

Is that a comfort rating, lower comfort rating / transition rating?

If it's a comfort rating, then outside of the 2 weeks of proper summer we're likely to see, I'd say that even with a liner you'll be cold.

It's this: http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-micro ... 4-2384.prd So I think that's the comfort rating?

ootini wrote:Thanks for that, are they just the standard AlpKit Airlok 13l bags? https://www.alpkit.com/products/airlok- ... a-13-litre

Yes - that's the ones. Using your £s to volume/weight chart, they are easily the cheapest, lightest solution for volume.

ootini wrote:
It's this: http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-micro ... 4-2384.prd So I think that's the comfort rating?

That is the first sleeping bag I bought for bikepacking - I used it for 2 trips, the second of which was in late August and I ended up quite cold in it (even wearing clothes). I didn't have a thermometer so I can't tell you exactly but I doubt it got below 10c. I bought a £50 vango synthetic after that which was fine for summer use. I have just replaced it with a Cumulus M350 down quilt which packs to around the same size as your Tesco bag but has a lower comfort rating of -4c so should cover me for 3 season use.

ootini wrote:It's this: http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-micro ... 4-2384.prd So I think that's the comfort rating?

Unless you want many miserable nights sleep i'd avoid that bag or anything similar. As a minimum for UK 3 season use you need a comfort rating down to zero.

Scrimp and save on everything else but get yourself the best sleeping bag you can. Getting a good nights sleep is vital for enjoying any trip. Waking at 3am shivering and unable to get back to sleep isnt much fun (we've all been there).

Appreciate that spending £150 on a sleeping bag may be a stretch for some, but buying something of good quality once can be a lot cheaper than spending money on something which isnt up to the task.