Training thread

[Ben98]

And I would make a pitch for running. I think it makes a big difference to your readiness for pushing the bike in a bikepacking ride, it's great for burning calories, and it's easy to fit in around life commitments.

Here here!

[jameso]

After my 1st SS ride this year yesterday I think I've learned a few things. 7-8 weeks being my longest break from SSing in 2 years, the ride was >5hrs in the Chilterns on 2" mud tyres, slow going in places but not the quagmire I feared : ) A lot of fun too, I missed it.

1 - Ian's right about specific training if you want to focus your riding. I'm sore today, less so than expected though and mainly above the waist.
2 - I think there's value in the low cadence, high gear-low HR climbing (ie repeatable over a longer 5-7hr road rides back to back on a weekend) method of keeping up your strength during road base miles in winter - I got up my 2 SS-reference hills without any trouble, one is almost a summer-only hill for me but yesterday I was up it within my limits. Felt strong enough, heart-lungs could back up any missing 'grunt strength' on the steeper bits. I think I'd struggle there after 5-6 hrs whereas last spring I was riding them (only just) after 12+ with a light load on. So strength is there, specific area of endurance less so?
3 - SS is a great workout, for the 1st time I used a HRM on the SS and I was suprised how the SSer climbing pace you learn (go hard but not 'popping a cork' as you can't gear down to recover, keep a lid barely on it) is all done at my LTHR, or a shade under. Realistic FTP output, accurate PE it seems. Obvious I guess but interesting to see how close it is to what I do on a turbo. I spend a lot of time climbing in that zone on the SS and 'sprints' for pace and working the bike for flow/momentum keep me in the so-called sweet spot of 5-7% below that more than I thought.

[mountainbaker]

Had an interesting ride today. After reading things on this thread, I thought I'd try a few things. I generally like to drop gears on a hill and spin, but today I decided to try not to drop gears until I had to get out of the saddle for a while and once I really had to, drop a gear. My cadence was lower by about 10. Road rides I normally settle around 90rpm, today was low 80s.

Interestingly, I was a little slower on climbs I regularly do, but on the flat/gentle inclines, I was noticeably faster, though more effort was required. Strava is telling me I was mostly riding in Z4! though I'm not sure how accurate that is. It has my heart rate max at 185 I think (I'm 36), but my resting heart rate is super low, 41bpm. I have no idea how that affects Max heart rate or the zone boundaries though?

I've just got some cheapo avid brakes for an old 26er I'm throwing together as a singlespeed, hopefully I'll get out on that tomorrow and see how that goes!

[Zippy]

I don;t worry about specificity these days. Don't do enough riding to warrant it now. All about marginal-ish gains once you're doing specifics. If you don't ride much, just riding more has the biggest gains, then you start targeting stuff as you become more and more classified as an "athlete".

[jameso]

Strava is telling me I was mostly riding in Z4! though I'm not sure how accurate that is. It has my heart rate max at 185 I think

Strava may not be a lot of use there and from what I've read, the 220-minus-age formula seems to be way out as often as it is a useful guide. I've done a max test where I really did hit the stops and wouldn't repeat it these days, I really didn't think it felt like a healthy thing to do.. I seem to remember maxing out at maybe 8bpm more than I can hit these days 10 years later, but all I've read says there's no real drop in HR as you age so the 220- thing can't be that useful for a basically fit person.
Joe Friel says work of a % of LTHR as it's measurable regularly w/o undue stress or risk. Based on my old max test, my max calculated off a % of LTHR and the maxes I hit while riding that don't have me keeled over (ie maybe 8-10bpm under a real max-to-collapse), they all give me a max within ~8bpm range and it must vary a bit. I tend to set my HRM levels at the lower range of that as I need the HRM more for keeping my pace down rather than knowing I'm working hard, and use effort/leg pain as well as the HR to judge work levels.
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/06/ma ... tness.html - Why HR may vary
http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2 ... zones.html - zones based on LTHR test
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... GU&cad=rja - calculate levels based on LTHR

[mountainbaker]

Thanks for those links James, will give them a read later on.

Managed a short outing on my bungled together singlespeed. All parts I had lying about except for some rigid forks I got cheap. It's an old Kinesis Maxlight frame I bought back in 2005 I think. Super light, and the chainstays are exactly the right length for 32x19! I got up hills I really didn't think I'd be able to. I also slipped on some roots and got my gonads on the stem, twice! Anyway, it's a different way of riding, which I think will benefit the rest of my riding. Looking forward to doing more of it, and getting out in worse weather as there's nothing really to go wrong with the bike!

[composite]

So unfortunately I had to cut short my 3 nights out bikepacking this week on a certain long gravel road route because as I had a minor emergency at home. Few things learnt/noticed though:

1. Stick to whatever pace it is you are comfortable with even if you get behind time. There were so many tree's down/boggy/water logged sections that I had some substantially challenging hike-a-bike to do which put me massively behind schedule. Trying to catch up made me more tired than I should have been. I think in the long run it's better to stay within your comfort zone effort wise but just ride for longer.

2. I found that as I was getting tired towards the end of the first day I started to stand up peddle instead of my normally preferred spinning. It was good as I was able to use it as a kind of reserve way of climbing. This isn't the first time I have noticed this but I always forget about it. I think it could be worth developing both techniques rather than concentrating on one.

PS. The climbing on that route is absolutely relentless by the way.

[jameso]

Just coming back to this thread to ask for anything the more experienced long-distance racers may be able to share or comment on, regarding recovery and impact of long rides/races where you push yourself beyond normal levels.

After last year's big ride I was understandably long-term fatigued, the 2-3 weeks after were a real struggle and I think it took ~4 months to get over it. 3 weeks ago we finished the HLC, 850 tough miles with some long days and although the pace wasn't too high, the lack of good food and sleep adds up. I'm feeling a distinct lack of power / higher PE on local hills and a more general fatigue, there's no 'pop' in my legs. A familiar feeling .. but not one I expected after the last ride. Possibly related to conditioning going into the event but now I doubt many can feel fresh a month or 2 after putting in a good effort over a week or more?

Qs
- do longer (week+) rides like this normally wear you down that much, is it a case of muscle wastage that takes a long time (how long?) to recover from?
- Is it more about the long steady miles changing your fitness away from the shorter-term HI ability and more preparing you for very steady miles?
- recovery plan - short, easy regular rides building intensity as you recover, laying off the long miles as the base is already there?

I'm used to coming back from trips in previous years feeling faster after a short period of recovery, not more tired! A week in Taiwan post HLC may not have helped so it's not something I'm too worried about. But it is making a good case for campfires, trout fishing and drinking as well as a road-ish bike playing a more significant part in my next ride plan : ) or figuring out some changes to prep and recovery plans.

And now I realise why the 'triple crown' types in the States rarely place highly in the 3 events despite being able to complete them. Apart from Jay P, WTF is that guy eating? : ) It's not just the performance with the top guys but the ability to recover and repeat.

[Bearbonesnorm]

My memory is fuzzy so excuse my vagueness ... I once spoke to a well respected coach (name long gone from memory) at the end of a 24 hour race (can't remember which one) and they'd coached the winner (don't recall who). They told me that the last 12 months had all been focused on this race and that the rider was in the best possible shape at the start. They reckoned that it would now take 9 months to recover from the 'damage' done by the previous 24 hours

I've no idea whether that's correct but it did make me think ... it must have done because I remembered it

[jameso]

:) .. Suprising.. I guess it depends on what he means by 'damage' - % drop off from top-level form / ability to train at a high level, or actual physical deterioration. Same thing perhaps. Can't be good for you though.
On the HLC Paul was telling me about the level of damage, scarring of sorts, to the heart seen in some endurance racers, since the body is only designed to work at higher levels for maybe a couple of hours, for hunting, fight or flight etc. A number of 16-20 hour days at 75% or so HR followed by fairly poor recovery each night just aren't natural performance levels for the body.

[Ian]

Post HTR last year, I hit my peak in early September. Some of that was down to super compensation, but even allowing for that there's about 10 weeks recovery from 70 hours of riding with 9 hours sleep.