More thinking out loud - apologies.

Perhaps unbeknown to some, Bear Bones wasn't started with the intention of encouraging people to 'try' bikepacking or to somehow further the cause. On the contrary really, it was meant as a haven or retreat for cycling's weirdos, displaced and dispossessed. A relatively small group at the time who were largely ignored and even sometimes shunned by the mainstream (although perhaps hard to believe, we should remember that for a long time the industry couldn't get a handle on bikepacking and had zero interest until they saw a way to re-package it into something more palatable) BB provided a home where one could share ideas and interact with like minded odd-balls. By my reckoning, it's never been elitist and has always been very inclusive but expectations change as do perceptions and social norms and as they do, BB will likely once again become an island .... a bit like Fraggle Rock really

There was a bit of discussion on Sunday afternoon at the community centre about this. There's a definite feeling that there's a large number who've come to bikepacking through the bike industry's mode of using it to sell stuff. I suspect many of those that Stu talks about would be expecting something like a long version of the Dirty Reiver up in Kielder Forest, essentially terrain just beyond what most would be comfortable using a road bike on.

I think there is an underestimation of how hard the really bad part of the east - west leg and then the land rover track were in the proper darkness. I was lucky in that I just got off the east -west bit as it went proper dark, the land rover track was just an endless hell where the track on the other side of the river crossing was indistinguishable and many time you were heading down the river

Was I slow?

Well the half a dozen riders in a stretched out group behind on the east -west leg me never caught up with me through it, I saw a light only once in the last km of it and then never again. Some may have passed me when I had my meal in the PC but nothing as I headed up the forest track towards the next moorland crossing where I decided to stop for a rest tired with no hope of a black badge. I'm only aware of one who passed in the night around 4 or 5am (good on them) and one more passed as I ate breakfast (caught them in town) and they had passed a few bivying, walked up the climb with two more but dropped them on the descent and never saw them again. Spent a couple of hours at the cross roads in town outside a cafe and didn't see one rider.

Other than one or possibly two riders I don't think anyone who hadn't made the turn east and into the forest in daylight would have completed (unless I missed them in the PC or snoring next to the track)

I'm not saying that with an elitist mindset but from a practical stand-point. Many had / have never ridden on anything other than a gravel path. Some had never carried their own kit and others had never camped. Yet, many seemed quite put out when I explained quite politely that they really didn't want to do it and they most certainly wouldn't enjoy it, no matter type 1, 2 or 3.

What I note is that the faster riders pack very light, I knew there was a risk of a stop and packed accordingly, perhaps stopping anyone finishing before 22 or 23 hours may make it more of a bike packing event for all entrants

riderdown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:06 pm What I note is that the faster riders pack very light, I knew there was a risk of a stop and packed accordingly, perhaps stopping anyone finishing before 22 or 23 hours may make it more of a bike packing event for all entrants

I didn't pack more than the bare minimum for the 300 either. No point in me stopping as I wont sleep anyway.

The more you carry to stop comfortably, the more likely you are to stop IMHO.

I’ve got to say that I thought it was a really good route with a bit of everything that I expected/ hoped/ feared. Having not done much longer riding for a few years I wanted to see if I still had any capacity to “endure “ and it certainly tested that!

I hope those still to ride the route aren’t too worried after reading comments on here, it’s definitely a case of any forward progress being good and keeping a positive attitude.

Thanks to Stu and Dee for organising and everyone I chatted with along the way.

riderdown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:06 pm
What I note is that the faster riders pack very light, I knew there was a risk of a stop and packed accordingly, perhaps stopping anyone finishing before 22 or 23 hours may make it more of a bike packing event for all entrants

My intention was not to stop but lack of fitness meant otherwise. My pack consisted of:

SMD Gatewood Cape/Tarp with BB multi-section CF pole and a mixture of pegs.
Cumulus 150 quilt
Klymit X-Frame torso mat
Borah Gear bivy bag
Merino long sleeved top base layer.

Total of 1200g or thereabouts and all fits in the smaller of the Wildcat tapered dry bags.

Apart from the mat deflating overnight - need to find the leak - it provided for a very comfy bivy. In the unusual conditions last weekend I could have left the tarp behind but then the bivy bag isn't fully waterproof so possibly not technically meeting the mandatory kit requirements. If it had been forecast to be a bit colder I'd have added my merino long-johns as well - bivvied on the tops before the big town so avoided any temp inversion.

What I note is that the faster riders pack very light, I knew there was a risk of a stop and packed accordingly, perhaps stopping anyone finishing before 22 or 23 hours may make it more of a bike packing event for all entrants

We're back to changing perceptions and expectations - in 2011 only 2 riders (both very strong) got a black badge. By 2013 on the same route but in reverse, that number rose to around 35. Nothing had changed apart from experience and knowledge. In 2011, I recall quite a few doubted that a sub-24 was even possible.

Agree Stu, experience and expectations count for a huge amount. The 300 only came about as more black badges on the 200 meant it had become achievable by many, and a further challenge was needed. This is one event that's different to the "open to all regardless" as its for the "open to all if your mind allows it". We've seen people who are not physically prepared get through as their head said "bring it on" and we've seen very fit people jack it in.
I love the challenge aspect. The 300 is a big ask. The 200 is perfectly possible if your head is in the right place.
Sounds like this year is quite hard - let's see.......

All this discussion about toughness and intent, combined with the significant amount of rain due this week should make for an interesting/tough/fun weekend at my first bb200.

The more of Stu's ponderings I read, the more it fits for me - always looking for a challenge which feels slightly too much, while being achievable... and th completion seems achievable, whereas a black badge looks right at the edge of what I can currently aim for...

Who knows how it'll work out - best get a bike built up really, the amount of moisture and mud potential makes me want thinner tyres and more clearance than my usual 29+ stooge, and the hills combined with amount of tarmac make the singlespeed look unpleasant.

whitestone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:38 pm
My intention was not to stop but lack of fitness meant otherwise. My pack consisted of:

SMD Gatewood Cape/Tarp with BB multi-section CF pole and a mixture of pegs.
Cumulus 150 quilt
Klymit X-Frame torso mat
Borah Gear bivy bag
Merino long sleeved top base layer.

Total of 1200g or thereabouts and all fits in the smaller of the Wildcat tapered dry bags.

I carried a Gatewood Cape, a Snugpak Merlin Softie 3 bag, and permavent footprint together with my waterproofs in a Salsa EXP Anything front roll thing. 1500g-ish and didn't get opened*. So I was fully prepared to stop but didn't need to. 19/20 hours awake and 4/5 sleeping is my aim with multi-day stuff and I'd guesstimated coming in around 20 hours so the extra hour it actually took above that to finish wasn't a dealbreaker.

* I'd actually forgotten that I'd opened it to shove a panic purchased pasta salad from the SPAR that I didn't eat down one end. Forgotten about that until I came to unpack yesterday and learned it split open leaving me with a lovely red pesto stained jacket. Doh!

the amount of moisture and mud potential makes me want thinner tyres and more clearance than my usual 29+ stooge,

I'm currently thinking that ground conditions may actually be slightly better (certainly not worse) this coming weekend. We had nothing but rain prior to last weekend (it was still raining quite heavily on Fri night) but we've just had 4 dry warm days and while there is some rain forecast for tomorrow and Fri, it looks quite short lived.

With regard to packing etc, there is a school of thought that says, the longer it takes you then the harder it is. Generally those taking longer will need to carry more kit and supplies. They'll also have to endure the weather for longer and go with poor or reduced sleep.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:31 pm

the amount of moisture and mud potential makes me want thinner tyres and more clearance than my usual 29+ stooge,

I'm currently thinking that ground conditions may actually be slightly better (certainly not worse) this coming weekend. We had nothing but rain prior to last weekend (it was still raining quite heavily on Fri night) but we've just had 4 dry warm days and while there is some rain forecast for tomorrow and Fri, it looks quite short lived.

Well, that's not helping my indecision! But does sound hopeful

PaulE wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:15 pm … make the singlespeed look unpleasant.

Well, that's not helping my indecision!

I guess it wouldn't be helpful to suggest that the singlespeeders seemed to be having a blast at the weekend then either?

Seriously though, I'd not overthink it. Just pack wisely and run what ya brung!

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:31 pm I'm currently thinking that ground conditions may actually be slightly better (certainly not worse) this coming weekend. We had nothing but rain prior to last weekend (it was still raining quite heavily on Fri night) but we've just had 4 dry warm days and while there is some rain forecast for tomorrow and Fri, it looks quite short lived.

With regard to packing etc, there is a school of thought that says, the longer it takes you then the harder it is. Generally those taking longer will need to carry more kit and supplies. They'll also have to endure the weather for longer and go with poor or reduced sleep.

Yeah, it looks like there could be two decent BB200 days this year. Unthinkable!

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:31 pm I'm currently thinking that ground conditions may actually be slightly better (certainly not worse) this coming weekend. We had nothing but rain prior to last weekend (it was still raining quite heavily on Fri night) but we've just had 4 dry warm days and while there is some rain forecast for tomorrow and Fri, it looks quite short lived.

Richard G wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:06 pm Yeah, it looks like there could be two decent BB200 days this year. Unthinkable!

You know that you’ve just jinxed it now with the weather don’t youz

PaulE wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:15 pm Who knows how it'll work out - best get a bike built up really, the amount of moisture and mud potential makes me want thinner tyres and more clearance than my usual 29+ stooge, and the hills combined with amount of tarmac make the singlespeed look unpleasant.

Stick with 29+, believe me!
Singlespeed was probably no more unpleasant than anything else - I did push a lot though

slarge wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:29 pm We've seen people who are not physically prepared get through as their head said "bring it on" and we've seen very fit people jack it in.

This is what I'm relying on. And maybe pizza...

redefined_cycles wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:37 pm I'll say that again. I'm not riding but called the takeaway/donner place. IT CLOSES AT 0300

Sorry for shouting. As you were

Above info retracted. Really sorry about this, but going through my phone log it seems I called the same named takeaway in Warrington instead. Checking their googleMaps opening times it fit.

Sincerest apologies

So, to repeat. That takeaway called TD at miles 80ish. It closes at 11pm amd not 0300 as I erroneously mentioned above.

For those who not done the BB200 before, be prepared / worried for just how little is open in Mid-Wales in October, that includes the towns.

The 2020 route was further south and that had just one 24hr facility (in Crickhowell) , the other large town, Builth Wells, everything was shut between 2200 and 0700.

Those hours are basically the ones that the usual convenience stores work to but you've also Sunday trading hours to contend with.

Unless you are fast, something like a 21hr pace, or bivy then you won't get any resupply options.

Unless you are fast, something like a 21hr pace, or bivy then you won't get any resupply options.

There is an early shop, they do coffee as well

I think to make the shops/ garage you will need to be faster than 21 hour, you get an extra hour with the takeaway

If you are slower than that you'll be doing the Landover track/ river in the dark so a lot depends on water levels and your ability to ride through that in the dark

This is the first chance I've had to comment but well done everyone.

I'll likely post a more detailed report after the weekend but for now:

I had an off about a quarter of the way in and badly banged up my legs. I decided to continue to see how I went but after an initial easing up, my left leg and hip were beginning to protest in a way that wasn't normal but I cracked on and was bouyed by the smiling face of Kev taking photos, together with a brief chat about BSA's including the one he was riding ( Let me know if you do decide to sell any of them Kev.) After the E-W slog, getting back on the bike resulted in a wierd combination of stiffness on extension of the left leg and stabbing pains when I bent it but I cracked on hoping I could ride the issue out. After Katanya Rapids I had to have a think, there were definitely sensations in my leg that weren't attributable to simple exertion and they were getting worse. I only had 80K to do and 23hrs to do it but I was now about to venture over a particularly remote great big lumpy thing and had to consider the implication of further deterioration and the potential for seizing up completely in the middle of nowhere, however slight that risk was.
I decided to call it a day at that point rather than bring about an, albeit unlikely, situation where I may be reliant on others to get me out of there. As I write, I am still happy with the decision, even though I now know I could have finished and probably in a good time for me despite the challenges.
On which, they are why I do the BB200. I don't cycle enough to be fit enough to not find the event a challenge and I often sound like Muttley as I grind my way round the route (with Stu being Dick Dastardly of course.) But I would be very disappointed if those sections that invoke the most frustration weren't there.
As for GPXs, my main problem isn't the line but keeping an eye on the device in the first place and avoiding the far too frequent instances of smiling after a blast to the bottom of a hill to then notice I should have turned off at the top of it.

When I got back to the school, Rich G was there, so it was nice to have a conversation with someone about the event rather than just buggering off home, it meant I could mentally draw a line under not finishing.

It also goes without saying that it's always great to have those chats on the way round with so many different people from different walks of life. It's good to share a few FFS's with another human being.

macinblack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:02 am It's good to share a few FFS's with another human being.

Totally! I do think Stu should insist on forum name badges being worn though: I've still no idea who some of you are IRL! Maybe scrawled with a sharpie across the forehead.

Maybe scrawled with a sharpie across the forehead.

I like that idea

I wondered what had happened to you Mac - glad you're alright and it worked out okay.

Thanks Stu.

The only thing that rankles is that I was ahead of where I expected to be with a shout at my best time ever but that's how the cookie crumbles, not that a cookie ever has chance to crumble in our house.

macinblack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:02 am When I got back to the school, Rich G was there, so it was nice to have a conversation with someone about the event rather than just buggering off home, it meant I could mentally draw a line under not finishing.

It also goes without saying that it's always great to have those chats on the way round with so many different people from different walks of life. It's good to share a few FFS's with another human being.

Sorry I wasn't more talkative, was feeling pretty rough at the time.

As for chatting with others going around, after the first couple of hours I really only said a handful of words to FatBikePhil in the tussocky nightmare, and a few sentences to a rider whose name I didn't get outside the supermarket in *** redacted ***. Was an oddly lonely experience.

Rob A wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:31 pm I hope those still to ride the route aren’t too worried after reading comments on here, it’s definitely a case of any forward progress being good and keeping a positive attitude.

I expect it to be hard and challenging, plus I expect to have a sense of humour failure at some point too. I hate pushing my bike, but I hate cold wet feet even more; I know I'm going to get both. There's nothing else for it but to keep moving forward, it'll end at some point...

I'm more worried about the temperature now than anything else, mostly due to my going too light on the 2022 WRT and ending up in a right state. So now I'm worried about going too light and getting cold, or going to heavy and sweating and getting cold; haven't had a cold ride yet this Autumn, so have forgotten where the knife edge is with all my clothing options. Stupid brain...