Good to meet you Alan

The scores on the doors from yesterday:

DNS 12
DNF 12
Green 11
Blue 2
Black 16
Orange 2

Out of interest, there was one woman start and one woman finisher (black). In Oct there were two women start and one DNF and one Black. Conditions were somewhat wetter and windier than in Oct, yet the first rider to finish was back at 00.26 after setting off at 07.12.

Thank you Stu and Dee, great event as always.

Sadly a DNF from mechanical for me following good progress up to 90 miles.

Being in middle of nowhere for a Sunday morning an 11 mile walk before fellow rider Alan found me off route and gave me a puncture repair kit (having left all my tools at the top of the mountain, doh!) allowing me to get to Newtown, that man was a saviour, thank you!

Lovely ride back to Llanbrynmair in the A470 bang on into the headwind was awful but I've never been happier to on the bike rather than pushing it so it didn't matter!

Always next year!

Thanks Dee and Stu.

Given the badge distribution I wonder what it might look like if the time limit for Black was 20hrs rather than 24? I say that even though I'd lose two black badges if it were the case. Of course then it's not that neat 24hrs.

Given the badge distribution I wonder what it might look like if the time limit for Black was 20hrs rather than 24?

Yesterday would have changed to 10 black, 8 blue.

Every year, I wonder what might happen if the time cut-offs were changed but the following year I leave them the same as there are so many other variables that can change things. I have considered dropping the green cut-off from 36 to 32 hours but not sure whether I will ... my thinking is that it would discourage people from staying in pubs, B&B etc but doing so may also put off those people who really give it their all but for whatever reason need the full time. Dunno? I firmly believe that anyone armed with a reliable bike and the correct approach / mindset can complete the BB200 in 36 hours and I don't think I'd really like that to change.

whitestone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:20 am Thanks Dee and Stu.

Given the badge distribution I wonder what it might look like if the time limit for Black was 20hrs rather than 24? I say that even though I'd lose two black badges if it were the case. Of course then it's not that neat 24hrs.

If there are loads of black badges it's not that the time limit is too long, it's the route was too easy

it's not that the time limit is too long, it's the route was too easy

You know they said that exact same thing in 2013 don't you?

Cue an absolute shocker of a route next year....

I recall from your BB history pieces on the blog that in the first year only two gained a black badge. People haven't got so much fitter in the intervening ten years or so that the distribution has radically altered. Quite possibly people are better prepared/know what to expect.

The danger in dropping all the cut-offs by four hours (or indeed any amount) is that it's basically catering towards the elite and gives the impression it's only for them whereas as you say the current limits encourage people to "have a go".

Given how much I walked on Saturday/Sunday morning I was really surprised to get under 24hrs. We aren't talking a minute or two here and there but blocks of fifteen or twenty minutes. Sometimes walking was just as quick as riding - Alex and I held another rider, who was riding, on several climbs. In part of chatting to Ian on Friday night it cropped up that it's more about not wasting time than being quick - multi-tasking at café stops, remembering the next couple of turns when looking at your GPS, etc. Walking at 4km or 5km/h is still moving forward.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:56 am

Given the badge distribution I wonder what it might look like if the time limit for Black was 20hrs rather than 24?

Yesterday would have changed to 10 black, 8 blue.

Every year, I wonder what might happen if the time cut-offs were changed but the following year I leave them the same as there are so many other variables that can change things. I have considered dropping the green cut-off from 36 to 32 hours but not sure whether I will ... my thinking is that it would discourage people from staying in pubs, B&B etc but doing so may also put off those people who really give it their all but for whatever reason need the full time. Dunno? I firmly believe that anyone armed with a reliable bike and the correct approach / mindset can complete the BB200 in 36 hours and I don't think I'd really like that to change.

For people like me who aren't as capable as many, 32 hours would be pushing it some years. I usually finish midway through the green time zone and I'm always on my last legs. Though the BB200 is a personal challenge for me and so finishing is the most important part, it would be a bit galling to lose out on a lovely piece of embroidery because the cut-off point has changed. It's all about the inclusivity, innit.

Right, now I can put words in order, best do a trip report.

Thanks to Stu and Dee, nice to have a good chat at the end. That veggie breakfast quashed the stomach rebellion too, that particular protest had been fermenting discontent since the small hours.

I still like the idea of a superblack badge... get around in sub 20 (or whatever) and Stu will glue some glitter on to the bear or something.

The danger in dropping all the cut-offs by four hours (or indeed any amount) is that it's basically catering towards the elite and gives the impression it's only for them whereas as you say the current limits encourage people to "have a go".

For people like me who aren't as capable as many, 32 hours would be pushing it some years. I usually finish midway through the green time zone and I'm always on my last legs. Though the BB200 is a personal challenge for me and so finishing is the most important part, it would be a bit galling to lose out on a lovely piece of embroidery because the cut-off point has changed. It's all about the inclusivity, innit.

... and this is why I've never done it and chose 36 hours as the cut-off originally. I certainly don't want to prevent people from having a go or making it beyond what people believe they're possible of. I do get a lot of satisfaction from handing out the badges and especially to those folk who never really thought they had it within them.

I still like the idea of a superblack badge... get around in sub 20 (or whatever) and Stu will glue some glitter on to the bear or something.

Orange is the new (super)black

Richard G wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:03 pm I still like the idea of a superblack badge... get around in sub 20 (or whatever) and Stu will glue some glitter on to the bear or something.

Could be a black bear on a black background, you know, one that only those that have won it understand, only a passing knowing nod to another veteran when you pass each other in Tescos.

Richard G wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:03 pm I still like the idea of a superblack badge... get around in sub 20 (or whatever) and Stu will glue some glitter on to the bear or something.

Or white.
Ghost like

whitestone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:34 pm
Given how much I walked on Saturday/Sunday morning I was really surprised to get under 24hrs. We aren't talking a minute or two here and there but blocks of fifteen or twenty minutes. Sometimes walking was just as quick as riding - Alex and I held another rider, who was riding, on several climbs. In part of chatting to Ian on Friday night it cropped up that it's more about not wasting time than being quick - multi-tasking at café stops, remembering the next couple of turns when looking at your GPS, etc. Walking at 4km or 5km/h is still moving forward.

This is totally it. I started pushing on the steepest ups from the very beginning. From Clun onwards I pushed up just about every incline >10% or less even off-road.
I rode maybe 100km in tune with Dyffers. We chatted, leapfrogged each other and had a remarkably similar pace but at no time did we stop or wait for each other. We just kept plodding on. As night wore on he tired quicker than me and we parted company.
Later on I swapped positions with a bunch of folk who were riding the ups multiple times. They dropped me on the climbs but I repeatedly reeled them back in by just keeping on going. By the Kerry Ridgeway I had left them all behind before hooking up with another rider once tarmac was reached in the last 20miles.
I’m well undertrained presently but got a Black Badge by 1) Not ‘burning my matches’ unnecessarily
2) Minimising stoppages to approximately 90mins in my 18h46min ride
3) Zero mechanical or equipment issues.

Given that my moving time for the 2020 edition was something over 21 hours, I'm rather in awe of all these speed merchants.

Bearlegged wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:00 pm Given that my moving time for the 2020 edition was something over 21 hours, I'm rather in awe of all these speed merchants.

2020 was significantly nastier than this one.

I agree that this was a quicker course than any of the previous ones I've done.

As LR says, I felt/was well under-trained so went very easy on the climbs from early on and just kept on moving.

My speed from about midnight onwards was pitiful but it wasn't zero. At the start I considered sub-24 to be in the balance; the route let me off and handed me a 21.xx ride I don't think I really deserved.

I warned Stu if he makes them easy he no longer has a USP...he invoked the threat of 2014 again. Maybe it's time...

Maybe if you're doing the 200 in much less than 24 hours, you should be doing the 300. Go longer, not faster...

Richard G wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:05 pm

Bearlegged wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:00 pm Given that my moving time for the 2020 edition was something over 21 hours, I'm rather in awe of all these speed merchants.

2020 was significantly nastier than this one.

Liam Glen and Matt Page still zoomed round it.

Bearlegged wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:00 pm Given that my moving time for the 2020 edition was something over 21 hours, I'm rather in awe of all these speed merchants.

2020 didn't have as much road as this years and what road there was tended to be hilly! Also the return half of this year, essentially once you'd done the climb out of Bucknell, was mostly either road or forestry track. It was just the softness of the ridgeway that slowed things down for that bit.

Moving time: of the 11hrs46 that my GPS did record, I was stopped for just 40mins. Most of that was the café at ByS, maybe 15mins inside so say 20mins, the rest will have been gates.

what road there was tended to be hilly!

Yes, I distinctly remember pushing up a hill signposted to Painscastle, and thinking, "I can see where they got the name from".

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:48 pm Maybe if you're doing the 200 in much less than 24 hours, you should be doing the 300. Go longer, not faster...

I'm in no rush to do the 300 again (and probably never will), but then I did have an utterly awful time of it due to my tyre failing / running out of tubes & patches.

It's funny, that's the reason I'm absolutely obsessive about carrying two tubes and three packs of patches now.

/sits in corner weeping

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:48 pm Maybe if you're doing the 200 in much less than 24 hours, you should be doing the 300. Go longer, not faster...

300 is the 2022 plan. I failed my previous 300 attempt; unfinished business but I had a personal need to re-validate my black badge before I went back to 300.

I'd rather success was in the balance on something difficult that guaranteed on something straightforward.

lune ranger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:43 pm

whitestone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:34 pm
Given how much I walked on Saturday/Sunday morning I was really surprised to get under 24hrs. We aren't talking a minute or two here and there but blocks of fifteen or twenty minutes. Sometimes walking was just as quick as riding - Alex and I held another rider, who was riding, on several climbs. In part of chatting to Ian on Friday night it cropped up that it's more about not wasting time than being quick - multi-tasking at café stops, remembering the next couple of turns when looking at your GPS, etc. Walking at 4km or 5km/h is still moving forward.

This is totally it. I started pushing on the steepest ups from the very beginning. From Clun onwards I pushed up just about every incline >10% or less even off-road.
I rode maybe 100km in tune with Dyffers. We chatted, leapfrogged each other and had a remarkably similar pace but at no time did we stop or wait for each other. We just kept plodding on. As night wore on he tired quicker than me and we parted company.
Later on I swapped positions with a bunch of folk who were riding the ups multiple times. They dropped me on the climbs but I repeatedly reeled them back in by just keeping on going. By the Kerry Ridgeway I had left them all behind before hooking up with another rider once tarmac was reached in the last 20miles.
I’m well undertrained presently but got a Black Badge by 1) Not ‘burning my matches’ unnecessarily
2) Minimising stoppages to approximately 90mins in my 18h46min ride
3) Zero mechanical or equipment issues.

Totally my experience also, even walked through the turnip field! Until the mechanical and my decision to leave my tools up a mountain i was looking to return within 24 hours you literally just need to be moving, speed is practically irrelevant