Surely 11 days too early - 50t cassette.

[Richard G]

Personally I always hated the horrific bodge that front mechs are and find that only having to concentrate on one shifter better suits my little brain

Just out of interest, why do you consider them a bodge? My 2x10 setup works perfectly with no rub in every gear, though obviously it's generally considered bad form to have the chain fully crossed up.

[benp1]

a neat option is the 2x up front without a shifter, so you have a bail out in an emergency

I can think of a better word than 'neat' to describe this. Have the courage of your convictions man, not this wishy-washy, half way house, worst of both worlds compromise. I'll never be a singlespeeder, but I can at least sort of understand the logic/appeal. But this just sounds like a daft idea to save a few grams. That being said, thinking back to the ridiculous stem setup on my Jones, I'm not really in the position to criticise anyone else personal choice as to how they set up their bike.

I do - I have 2 singlespeeds and 2 1x10s, but I can see a strange logic to it. If you're converting from 2x to 1x, you can leave the second ring on like an emerbency bail out, there'll be space for it already so it's no hardship. You won't have a mech or a shifter, you plan on running on a singlering so you can use a thick thin and maybe even an oval ring, and then if you're struggling for some reason and need a really really low gear, you have it there. I don't do this myself though

[benp1]

a neat option is the 2x up front without a shifter, so you have a bail out in an emergency

edit - 1x10 is also handy on my Solaris as I have my reverb button where the shifter would be

So - a button on your bars to change your seatpost height to adapt to ascents and descents is a good thing but one to let you use your full range of gears for ascents and descents is a bad thing.

I can use my full range of gears for ascents and descents (actually technically I can't, I need to adjust my mech as it won't let me drop into the smallest cog in my cassette, but that's a separate issue). It's not a bikepacking/touring bike, it's my main MTB (with a rigid SS as my other), so the dropper lets me enjoy XC/trail riding. I sometimes take it off for bikepacking, also sometimes leave it on.

I guess all I'm saying is that I've not found 1x10 to limit me for getting up hills, it's me that limits me - I'm never in a rush and I don't do big trips. I might change my tune if/when that changes

[jameso]

"gears are variable" .. good job there's some choice, bikes vary a lot. 50T will be the new big thing, if you're into set-ups like that. TBH I don't see what's wrong with the FD for most of my riding now (that or SS, if you want simplicty do it with some commitment) but having said that I had a 1x8 MTB with a chain guide for a mix of all-day XC and jumpy/DH stuff in 1998-early 2000s so I did see the appeal and accept the compromise when that was my riding mix.

At the risk of repeating myself, sure I've said this before, I think this is all a distraction from what I'd really like to see developed - a lighter, wide-ratio 5 to 7spd Rohloff-quality IGH. Something direct and efficient-feeling like a basic Nexus can be, doesn't need a Pinion-style frame box and has no significant weight penalty over the rear axle. No need for really low ratios, just a 350-400% range with the 1:1 being toward the lower end. I don't think I need more range than that. Happy to lose some top-end as long as there's close to a 3.5-1 top gear and bigger jumps are fine, either ride SS-style up the climb or sit in a gear that's a bit lower than ideal and save your legs. You get fitter that way anyway. I wish gearing brands would get over this obsession with close jumps and perfect cadences. I need to get drunk with Mr Rohloff sometime, it'll all make sense then.

[JezS]

^ when you're drinking with Mr Rohloff, tell him that I'll order one of those too if he can knock them out for <£250

[whitestone]

The close ratio thing is from road racing, possibly not a target for MTB blocks. Occasionally I'll find a climb that is just a bit too easy for one gear but just too hard for the next so I have the choice of either spinning or grinding my way up it.

[Bearbonesnorm]

For those who do want a 'full' range of gears but dislike the idea of a front mech' ... Sturmey Archer have made something for years that could answer your prayers. 3 speed hub gear that accepts a cassette. You get to keep your single ring and a 9 speed block out back and the hub takes care of what you've lost up front

[benp1]

Just ordered a Brompton, hasn't arrived yet but I'm quite excited (N+1 and all that). That has a SA 3 speed hub at the back, with possibility the worst shifter in the whole wide world!

[GregMay]

For those who do want a 'full' range of gears but dislike the idea of a front mech' ... Sturmey Archer have made something for years that could answer your prayers. 3 speed hub gear that accepts a cassette. You get to keep your single ring and a 9 speed block out back and the hub takes care of what you've lost up front

I didn't realise there was a disc version of that....hmmm

[Bearbonesnorm]

That has a SA 3 speed hub at the back, with possibility the worst shifter in the whole wide world!

SA Thumbies work well and are cheap enough at £20 ... I'm assuming the Brompton doesn't have this fitted?

[Ray Young]

For those who do want a 'full' range of gears but dislike the idea of a front mech' ... Sturmey Archer have made something for years that could answer your prayers. 3 speed hub gear that accepts a cassette. You get to keep your single ring and a 9 speed block out back and the hub takes care of what you've lost up front

Your still going to have two shifters and the extra weight of the hub so I don't see the point .

[Bearbonesnorm]

Your still going to have two shifters and the extra weight of the hub so I don't see the point

No front mech' Ray ......................... and it looks better by all accounts

[Ray Young]

No front mech' Ray ......................... and it looks better by all accounts

Oh, now I get it, silly me,

[benp1]

That has a SA 3 speed hub at the back, with possibility the worst shifter in the whole wide world!

SA Thumbies work well and are cheap enough at £20 ... I'm assuming the Brompton doesn't have this fitted?

No, it's some awful Brompton specific plastic thing. The thumbies are a common upgrade I think. There's a warranty issue with changing it though, it won't be a regular ride though so I'll probably keep it as is in the short term. It's for jumping on the tube/train and being able to lob in the car easily so I have a bike with me for certain things


This is what it comes with


This is the upgrade


But I know there's a trigger shifter and a grip shifter

(Sorry for the derailing)

[fatbikephil]

Personally I always hated the horrific bodge that front mechs are and find that only having to concentrate on one shifter better suits my little brain

Just out of interest, why do you consider them a bodge? My 2x10 setup works perfectly with no rub in every gear, though obviously it's generally considered bad form to have the chain fully crossed up.

Just cos at the end of the day a front mech downshift basically shoves the chain off one sprocket and you hope it lands on the next one down. Upshifts involve ramming the chain against the next ring up in the hope that it catches a tooth and doesn't fall straight over the top or jam in the chainstay. I know that this has been refined to the point that it does work fairly well but it has always struck me as being an essentially crap way of doing things. Plus front mechs seem to be a prime spot for mud clogging which is definitely much reduced with a single front ring. At least rear mechs are a bit more precise because of the smaller jumps however I think that a totally re-designed rear deraillieur system is on someones drawing board somewhere...

[mountainbaker]

This 10-50 proprietary cassette thing is BS.

All the extra cogs 40, 42, 50 whatever are Alu, allegedly so save weight, but there wear out f**king quick. So you have to spend more. Great.

Next it'll be square wheels ffs. I'll stick with 11-36 or SS thanks.

[mountainbaker]

@htrider: I prefer single front ring, but you should see what the peanut butter mud on TD can do to a narrow wide chainring! Wish I'd had rohloff tbh.

[GregMay]

@htrider: I prefer single front ring, but you should see what the peanut butter mud on TD can do to a narrow wide chainring! Wish I'd had rohloff tbh.

One of the main reasons I'll not be running single for TD.

[Nikk]

SRAM are doing the X-Sync narrow wide chainrings in steel now http://www.pinkbike.com/news/steel-x-sy ... -2015.html , maybe worth considering for that?

[jameso]

One of the main reasons I'll not be running single for TD.

If you're in trouble on a single you'll be jammed sooner on a double+FD, in any sort of mud?

[ZeroDarkBivi]

you should see what the peanut butter mud on TD can do to a narrow wide chainring!

Didn't seem to slow down Jeffe Branham on the 2014 Wet TD, with a Sram XX1 setup.

[mountainbaker]

http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/03/24/sra ... -overview/

[johnnystorm]

This 10-50 proprietary cassette thing is BS.

All the extra cogs 40, 42, 50 whatever are Alu, allegedly so save weight, but there wear out f**king quick. So you have to spend more. Great.

Next it'll be square wheels ffs. I'll stick with 11-36 or SS thanks.

I can't see a 50t alloy sprocket wearing out that quick. Front chainrings of that size have a decent life and you aren't going to be on the 50t all the time line you would the chainring.

[Alpinum]

Biking is so different and colourful. Some times it seems I live in an other reality to some others here (instead of going down the lane that there are many misconceptions here). I run through the chain before the alu adapter (three bikes set up with General Lee adapter) wears out. I live in the Alps but have put in 2200 km on UK soil with N/W chainrings and the General Lee. Never ever had an issue. The only difference after going through two chains is the lack of retention on the N/W ring, which only means it has dropped to a comparable level to 2 x set ups (well actually it's still a bit better).
After two years my front derailleurs all developed so much play, they had to be replaced. Same goes with cables and housing. All this clatter is gone with 1 x. More clearance too, less weight and yes, less weight on the cassette too with the general lee, as the three largest cogs are machined from one piece of alu. I've had bent teeth on the general lee which led to a hopping chain. Hit it with something hard - teeth bent back, job done. I know, alu can snap after bending. Well, it hasn't.

Back to the weight. Depending on what you had before, the difference can make a pound or more. 1 x opens up possibilities of frame designs, chain stay length, tyre width, mud clearance... heck, you only need a seat tube to hold your saddle, not to hold your derailleur too.

Having ridden DH bikes for a while going to 2 x was odd, but if you have rides that include 2000 m vertical gain in one piece there just wasn't a way around it. With 1 x I now have both. A facilitated way of handling gears, less chain slap, less noise, less faff, less weight, but allso more fun, more concentration on riding not shifting and efficiency. A lot of my fun comes from feeling efficient. It's only in very rough situations where I can provoke a dropped chain on new XX1 or X01 systems. Mostly so rough, I fighting to stay on the bike. On a 2 x set up even in easy terrain chain drops on what ever side you (dis)like. With a precicely adjusted front der. it may only drop down on the inside, but that doesn't make it any better. To solve the problem you can mount sh*t loads of chain guides and retention systems - in the end there's just more to break, go wrong and produce drag.

The difference from 2 x 10 to 1 x 10 was bigger than the change I get when going from 1 x 10 to 1 x 1. Mostly probably 'cause I didn't expect a big change from 2 x to 1 x, but it was huge and then I used to expect a huge change swapping bikes from 1 x 10 to 1 x 1 but it's ... well I'm just less tired and faster with 1 x 10 (this comparison is on flat terrain in Swiss terms like 3000 m climb in 100 km distance).

I'm really looking forward in getting the full glory of a 10 - 50 t cassette.

So many races have been and are won on 1 x set ups. Some of which have seen loads of miles before. Some criticism here is just plain wrong and to some the diner plate out the back may look stupid. But hey, 29ers looked odd too 15 years ago. If you want gears without the current restrictions in gear boxes or IGH and live in a place that dictates a big spectrum of gears for efficient riding... move on. Go 1 x 10 with a 11-42, 1 x 11 with 10-42 or get the new 'eagle'. And when I mean 1 x I means narrow/wide and a clutch type rear derailleurs. If you don't ride rough terrain, don't bother in N/W and clutch type der., it's mainly brilliant when riding rough stuff but no difference to any 1 x set up on sustrans and the likes.

I've had friends on Rohloff's and UT's G-BOXXes, guess what they're running now and feeling relieved (in two ways)? Yes, 1 by 10 or 1 by 11.

Welcome in my reality

[Templogin]

You guys become more heroic to me the more I read about what you're up to. I ended up going off-road along a track on the sea front in Cullen a couple of years ago on my bike (Thorn tourer - slightly loaded). Suddenly the track became rock and steep for a short section so I clicked down three gears at a time trying to find something that matched my sudden loss of speed. i engaged first on the Rohloff and even leaning slightly forward the front came up, I fell off the side as I lost balance, and still have the chainring mark on the inside of my trouser leg. Chainring is a 42 with a 16t cog on the back. Now I know you lot will be leaning forward further than I was, but how far are you going to have to lean forward with a 50t on the back and the tiny chainring on the front, or are you strapping all your lightweight luggage over the front!?

40 years ago me and my mates were cutting the cranks off 40t chainrings and modifying them to fit on SA 3 speed hubs. The torque that you could apply when you had a Raleigh Runabout moped chainring on the front (small number of teeth, can't remember how many) stripped the SA hubs in no time.