Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

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schmiken
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Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by schmiken »

redefined_cycles wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:19 pm
schmiken wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:55 pm When I did an Everesting last year I just used standard Shimano XT. They were fine and the pads lasted the 24 hours of riding required just fine.
Thanks Schmiken. Which hill did you use please. Mine is quite gnarly (silly, I know, but it'll be worth it) and the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Oh, and well done on your Everesting :-bd
https://strava.app.link/QtqXkUWSxAb

I used Beacon Hill, near Loughborough. 106 repeats last August.

Ran 180mm/160mm Icetech rotors on my Pivot Mach4SL with Shimano XT brakes and finned pads.

Braking power was never an issue, correct fuelling was the single biggest issue I had (oh, and the 32 degree heat in the middle of the day!)
riderdown
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:57 am

Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by riderdown »

Will bleed the brakes shortly as that's obviously me having burnt the oil (maybe!).
Usually it's water getting past the seals

You won't be burning the oil
redefined_cycles
Posts: 10328
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Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

schmiken wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:10 pm
redefined_cycles wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:19 pm
schmiken wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:55 pm When I did an Everesting last year I just used standard Shimano XT. They were fine and the pads lasted the 24 hours of riding required just fine.
Thanks Schmiken. Which hill did you use please. Mine is quite gnarly (silly, I know, but it'll be worth it) and the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Oh, and well done on your Everesting :-bd
https://strava.app.link/QtqXkUWSxAb

I used Beacon Hill, near Loughborough. 106 repeats last August.

Ran 180mm/160mm Icetech rotors on my Pivot Mach4SL with Shimano XT brakes and finned pads.

Braking power was never an issue, correct fuelling was the single biggest issue I had (oh, and the 32 degree heat in the middle of the day!)
Amazing, thanks for that. Still not sure how I'll do it, but am (trying to) train hard. Hopefully the £8848 for the Yemen Hunger Crisis I manage to raise will feel well worth it.

I'm being realistic with myself and have concluded that on the day, there may be a few reps/sections of the climb which I may need to dab/hike. Not entirely in line with the rules, but at least it's more realistic to Wverest than a smooth/paved road. That was the plan last year but couldn't getthe motivation.

I love this climb of mine (but not the way down, for which hopefully the suspension might change things a bit).

NB:Well done, solid effort and achievement :grin: :-bd
redefined_cycles
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Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

riderdown wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:43 pm
Will bleed the brakes shortly as that's obviously me having burnt the oil (maybe!).
Usually it's water getting past the seals

You won't be burning the oil
Thanks for this. Yes, I never noticed dark/black oil on the last bleed either. Though Syd Fixes Bikes (mechanic/YT) has ahown some properly black oil being bled outta some similar/same brakes!
redefined_cycles
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Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

https://youtu.be/Q0vSi38KgZs

Never needed to watch 'how to brake' by the Athertons, but needs must :lol:
redefined_cycles
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Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

Alpinum wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 10:12 am Edit:
You segment reminds me of a short stretch of track on one of the sides of one of my fav mountains for shuttle assisted riding. Every now and then I ride 4 - 5 x adding up to 7000 - 9000 m vert loss. That rather tame (not tech, just rough) stretch with some fist and baby head sized rocks becomes a sufferfest at the end of the day. Hands are sore, annular ligaments inflamed, some arm pump - despite 170/156 mm of travel and strong brakes. That's were strong arms/hands come in. Best advice I can give you is to train them accordingly.

Use a powerball 12 min each day to start off. 4 sets of 3 min; 2 left, 2 right. Obvs. change side after a set. After a bunch of weeks 2 x 12 min (like morning and evening) and later then 2 x 18 min. Being strong needs some work but will help much more than getting new bike parts

You were already there once(squealing). May want to re-read this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16952&p=214638&hili ... op#p214638

Some other stuff here (bite point):
Alpinum wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:00 pm If you have a wandering bite point, it's likely (since you have bled the system well already) that your brakes' orifice holes are too small.

I've had similar issues (so far with 8 Shimano brake levers) and was able to solve them (unless sub freezing) by using Plutoline HPX 2.5 wt oil. Lever feel is much better, lighter and snappier.

Another way is to disassemble the lever and drill the hole to 0.7 mm. Never done it myself, so can't comment further on it.

I tend to flush the system with about 40 mL of the new oil and do a (nearly) regular bleed afterwards.
Whilst I'm sure this doesn't solve the issues you have, here's what I think makes a decent DH brake (decent descent brake :grin: ):

Large rotors. Alu spider and/or thick braking area (>2 mm). 203 mm f/r or 220 mm f/r or mullet.
Good brake pads. There are organic and semi metallic compounds which work better than sintered (eg E compound from Swissstop vs. original Shimano). Usually semi metallic and sintered are the way to go in my experience.
Solid and regular bleeding.
4 pots.

Since I know you'll be wanting to know what models exactly;
Rotors: no specific brand, just what I get offered or is available. Going with the Jagwire Pro LR2 for a new build (big trail bike). Just for an example. Been using Magura MDR-P on the bike which will be replaced. Look huge, are ugly and heavy, worked great. Other rotors I quite like are some of Clarks.
Pads: Swissstop E pads. Best pads I ever used. Despite being (apparently) based on an organic compound, they behave more like sintered pads. Need a little warm up to develop their full potential. Last much longer then eg the equally powerful Trickstuff Performance pads.
I try to bleed once a year ("try" :roll: ). I use mentioned Plutoline oil. Been using it for some years know. Works well. Better than the Shimano, Trickstuff or Magura oils.
Lever/caliper: Currently I still have one bike with DOT fluids, but moving away from it with the new build. All my trail bikes will then have Shimano 4 pot brakes and Shimano levers. 2 x 4 pot XT's (M8120), 1 x SLX lever (M7120) with former 4 pot XT caliper (M8020).

Regard the brake as a system of many parts (brake levers, brake caliper, pads, rotor, hydraulics, hose). You can adjust this system's modulation, power and heat management by changing any one of the parts. I've tested many of the parts isolated and was quite surprised just how little a difference eg. 2 vs. 4 pot makes. Change pads or rotor shape and size and you may have a bigger differences.

You're bit of a nutter if you're still reading. I've a cold and am digesting after another huge breakfast, so have an excuse to spending this much time typing :lol:

Last words.
With your segment of some 12 % gradient on 80 m vert loss and the need to replace pads after some 2000 or 4000 m vert loss, I think you must have broken the matrix.
Just finished reading (and as always, thanks to yourself and the rest). The plan to fix the matrices...

1. Gonna order some Putoline oil tomorrow, so will save the bleeding til then.
2. I love Swisstop pads on my road bike v (not V, you know what I mean) calipers. So will order some swisstop e as you mentioned.
3. New rotors at both ends, with full 2mm thickness (all mine are used so not bought a new rotor in ages - just sanded down :grin: ).
4. Work on my braking and more feathering!!
5. Best go up with some shears and clear alot of the thorns that I'm constatly needing to avoid!
redefined_cycles
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Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

Gonna leave this here as I just saw it mentioned on the comments on Syd Fixes Bikes. I may well have ruptured it! Will see how I get on anyway but anyone reading, remember you need to remove the oil cap at the lever before pushing back of the pistons!!

Oh dear :sad:

Image
redefined_cycles
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Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

Mentioned in the comments at the top of this vid. I might be ok though cos they mention that the sign of a knackered brake lever bladder is, fluid leaking when pressing the brakes.

https://youtu.be/o-YvMRJunwo

Hope it might be of help to someone out there :smile:
riderdown
Posts: 642
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:57 am

Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by riderdown »

I think you would need to try hard to rupture a bladder. New one on me after years of pushing pistons back without the funnel

I would advise before pushing back giving the pistons a good scrub with a brush (I use test tube cleaning ones) I also put a bit of brake fluid (oil) on the piston/caliper interface before pushing so it lubes the o rings (X ring for Shimano)
redefined_cycles
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: Which DH brakes for 8000m of descent?

Post by redefined_cycles »

riderdown wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 9:56 pm I think you would need to try hard to rupture a bladder. New one on me after years of pushing pistons back without the funnel

I would advise before pushing back giving the pistons a good scrub with a brush (I use test tube cleaning ones) I also put a bit of brake fluid (oil) on the piston/caliper interface before pushing so it lubes the o rings (X ring for Shimano)
Nice1... Will do that :-bd
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