As we're on the subject of books, I think my all time favourite is probably, Journey to the centre of the Earth. Quite a pragmatic tale with little navel gazing which kind of adds rather than detracts from the story.

I've not read it. A quick Google says it was written in 1864. That's well old!

Another search reveals that The Lost World was first published in 1912. I've read that and enjoyed it. Stands up well against more modern tales.

I've not read it. A quick Google says it was written in 1864. That's well old!

We might have our wires crossed

. I recalled numerous conversations over the years with such people and while not indicative of everyone, there was a trait that a surprising (or maybe it isn't) number seemed, by their own admission to possess ... and it was hate. Not a hate of others or of things but of self.

Bit surprised that this has not been picked up on. I've had similar thoughts over the years having read several cycling biographies and autobiographies. The thing with cycling and especially ultra-distance events is that you spend long periods alone with your thoughts whilst trying to focus on achieving what to most people seems physically near impossible. It's certainly a million miles from 80 or 90 minutes running about with your mates chasing a bag of wind. I recall an interview many years ago with Chris Boardman in which the hapless BBC questioner asked him where he cycled for pleasure. His reaction was priceless, he simply couldn't process the question, it was like the interviewer was talking a foreign language. He finally replied that in his life, cycling wasn't done for pleasure, it was his only talent that enabled him to put food on the table. Bit like the Bill Shankly reply about football really.

OK, longer answer (might be a ramble!)

I got into biking after over thirty years climbing the last ten years or so concurrent with fell running. Climbing (outside on natural crags) has a lot in common with bikepacking in that you are trying to do as much as possible with as little kit as possible, after all it's harder work climbing carrying 10kg of kit than 5kg. Climbing (outside) was also not officially competitive, sure you tried to outdo your mates but that was really as far as it went. Fell running was different in that as a sport it is race/time oriented but there's still a social side especially if like me you were mid-pack and not bothering the pointy end of things - you'd often end up trotting along talking to the same group of runners you'd last "raced against" a couple of weeks earlier.

Bikepacking events are a bit like that: you are often find yourself riding for a while with people you last met/rode with at the previous event then either you or they stop and you part like ships in the night.

I did the 2017 HT550. I was definitely mid-pack. I remember a group of about six of us waiting to eat (note the waiting) at the Kinlochewe Hotel and someone got their phone out to check where the leaders were. "He's heading over the Devil's Staircase!" was one comment. So there we were, dot watching the very "race" we were partaking in! Prior to getting to the hotel I'd had a longish chat with a couple of elderly crofters about the event and where it went, I suspect they might have been to Inverness once or twice in their whole lives and probably didn't like the experience. I actually enjoyed the central and northern loops so much that when rolling back into Fort Augustus and temporarily joining the outward track I seriously considered heading round them again.

My "race" pace and touring pace are not too dissimilar, the former may occasionally be 1km/h faster, what is different is stopped/faffage time. A "camp" on an ITT might be 2-4 hours depending on weather or tiredness whereas when touring it might be 12hrs or more. There's also the "in ride" stops, cafés and the like, so a day's riding might only be 6-8hrs rather than 20hrs on an ITT.

The BB2/300 are very friendly/social for what is intended to be an "individual" event. I think that with the 200 in particular it's not long enough to spread everyone out in the same way as something like the HT550 does so you are never too far from other riders, stop for fifteen minutes at a shop/café and half a dozen riders that had been out of sight all turn up. Again you just drift in and out of others' orbit.

The "solo traveller" thing is interesting - I remember listening to an interview with Rory Stewart (ex Tory MP) who spent a year, (just checked, it was 2 years), walking across Asia engaging with the locals, staying with them, he was of the opinion that it was the only way to get to really know a country and was quite dismissive of the diplomatic service that he'd stepped away from and their "empirical we know best" attitude.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:16 pm

I've not read it. A quick Google says it was written in 1864. That's well old!

We might have our wires crossed

I’m sure you can get this free online (it’s out of print) and then read it via the kindle app. Hmmmm

Edit - here
https://xmasepic.files.wordpress.com/20 ... cranes.pdf

One or two format issues if my memory is right but an excellent read

Also need to restart Nicks one on walking through Europe

voodoo_simon wrote: ↑ Also need to restart Nicks one on walking through Europe

Preferred Two Degrees West, but yep they've all been inspiring to me in various ways, and all ont bookshelf here. Bicycles Up Kilimanjaro's another one.

Once again can I thank you for your long and detailed replies. Love the crossed wires about journey to the centre of the earth . Might have to read the Jules Verne novel now just to see what it's like.

So plans for this winter. (I'm a gardener so winter is when I have more opportunity to ditch work for a few days).

4 days in Snowdonia/Trans Cambrian at the beginning of October. With a great friend. Can't wait.

BB200 in Nov. I'll make sure to say hello then will just see what happens when night rolls in.

Mid winter sometime. Jameso emailed me a 500km Wales route. Looks like a cracker. Fancy I might try that on my own as a semi serious ITT. See how that goes.

Then we'll see....

RIP wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:28 pm

jameso wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:35 pm You're a tourer for sure Ever ridden with Reg?

I'm possibly nearer 'flaneur' than 'tourer', but I never was good at labels .

That's a good one.. I've enjoyed my rides in Wales in recent years, thinking 'be more Reg' just ask the farmer how things are this year, ask the walker where they're headed to. Rather than think about how far you might ride that day, efficiency etc (sounds a bit 'racer' but it's really the art of effective touring, honest). Started thinking Wales is the friendliest place I've been.

rollindoughnut wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:45 pm Two books, I have them both (amongst many others):

The Man who cycled the world by Mark Beaumont.
Cycling home from Siberia by Rob Lilwall.

Rob's adventure was my favourite by a million miles.

Rob Lilwall's book is particularly good isn't it.

Phil, Bob - great posts on ITTs and races, shifts my thoughts on them. I used to race XC and the odd DH in late 80s / early 90s and that's how it was then.

I've not done many 'races/group starts', but line up with part of me hoping to not be too far behind and/or to post an impressive time, then by lunch time I'm too knackered to push on, so take it at my own pace - take the photos, chat to fellow riders (those that will), look at the view etc. I have ridden through the night, and would do again, but more often catch some sleep. It definitely adds an extra something being part of an event and I guess that's the 'why' - humans are pack animals at heart.
Point of order - there'll be no more YD300, but should hopefully be a NYM300.
We used to run an event that was split into sections and faster riders got longer sections. It meant riders of hugely different speeds kept meeting/passing each other and all finished within an hour of each other. I think it messed with the heads of some racer types, but was very sociable.

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:28 am Point of order - there'll be no more YD300, but should hopefully be a NYM300.

I've wanted to do the YD300 the last couple of years, but things have conspired. Interested to see what happens next then...

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:28 am We used to run an event that was split into sections and faster riders got longer sections. It meant riders of hugely different speeds kept meeting/passing each other and all finished within an hour of each other. I think it messed with the heads of some racer types, but was very sociable.

FTR - https://thedistance.cc/

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:28 am Point of order - there'll be no more YD300, but should hopefully be a NYM300.

Stuart Rider is moving to Thirsk to start/manage a new bike shop hence it's unlikely that there'll be an "organised" group start for the YD300. He's looking at creating a NYM300, whether that's next year or the year after is to be seen.

This really made me reflect on what i want out of the next BB300. When i think about it, what i really want is to just escape for a weekend and have some fun. I was going to "stoke my ego" and blast round without sleep as fast as i could, but on reflection, thats actually not what i want to do at all. Im going to take it as it comes, hopefully with a scenic camp and a pub meal...now that would tick all my boxes!

whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:01 am

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:28 am Point of order - there'll be no more YD300, but should hopefully be a NYM300.

Stuart Rider is moving to Thirsk to start/manage a new bike shop hence it's unlikely that there'll be an "organised" group start for the YD300. He's looking at creating a NYM300, whether that's next year or the year after is to be seen.

Thanks Bob - I was looking for the post on here that Stuart explained it all in, but I think it's only on Facebook.

This really made me reflect on what i want out of the next BB300. When i think about it, what i really want is to just escape for a weekend and have some fun. I was going to "stoke my ego" and blast round without sleep as fast as i could, but on reflection, thats actually not what i want to do at all. Im going to take it as it comes, hopefully with a scenic camp and a pub meal...now that would tick all my boxes!

I've always tried to encourage people to give it their best shot but more so, I've tried to instill the idea that finishing is the real goal. Id far rather see someone pace themselves and do what they have to and finish in 33 hours, than go mad, blow-up or become disheartened and record a DNF.

To finish first, you must first learn how to finish*

*I'm not applying that directly to you Alex, just that your post got me thinking.

I was with my buddy, planning our upcoming Snowdonia trip last night. The route from Llandudno to Mach could be done in 63miles on the A470. Our route will top 160 miles as it wriggles around to visit places of interest. Our conversation was all about nice views, places to eat, historical sites etc. Going to nip up Snowdon too as any self respecting mtb'er should do I reckon.
I guess I'm a tourer.

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:24 am

whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:01 am

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:28 am Point of order - there'll be no more YD300, but should hopefully be a NYM300.

Stuart Rider is moving to Thirsk to start/manage a new bike shop hence it's unlikely that there'll be an "organised" group start for the YD300. He's looking at creating a NYM300, whether that's next year or the year after is to be seen.

Thanks Bob - I was looking for the post on here that Stuart explained it all in, but I think it's only on Facebook.

I don't think he's posted on here for a few years. I've known about his move for a while - I was chatting to him yesterday about it and it was only after your post that I realised that the "news" hadn't spread.

whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:47 pm

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:24 am

whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:01 am

boxelder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:28 am Point of order - there'll be no more YD300, but should hopefully be a NYM300.

Stuart Rider is moving to Thirsk to start/manage a new bike shop hence it's unlikely that there'll be an "organised" group start for the YD300. He's looking at creating a NYM300, whether that's next year or the year after is to be seen.

Thanks Bob - I was looking for the post on here that Stuart explained it all in, but I think it's only on Facebook.

I don't think he's posted on here for a few years. I've known about his move for a while - I was chatting to him yesterday about it and it was only after your post that I realised that the "news" hadn't spread.

Aww, sorry to hear that but glad that Stuart is moving onto a new enterprise and hope he does put something together for the NYM - funny how I'd largely forgotten that part of the world until your trip, Bob, then thought - "I should go there for a ride sometime", and now there may be a nice we ITT challenge...

Nowt to stop informal ITT's of the YD300 of course which I may just do at some point.

All interesting stuff this.

Erm, 'Why?' is quite a big question. But could someone summarise in one sentence what The Answer is then please? I'm feeling in need of a soundbite. Shallow, but that's me today .

'Why' is not the question Reg - but 'why not'.

Excellent. Can't get much shorter than that

I loved the 'do it while you can still be arsed' comment from earlier. Absolutely nails how getting older feels to me.

Nothing like a 3 hour cycle commute to ponder topics. So yesterday, after being away from the good old cycle-commute for at least 6 weeks, I pondered and thought about this threads topic. I can confirmatorively (yes, I just made that up, sorry) say that it's all about two things for me.

It was when I pulled the zipper of the toptube bag to take a pic of the over hovering bird that it reminded me. Definitely the wild life and the scenery. Stuff that you couldn't actually stop or slow to appreciate in the car but can be done on the bike. Back to the bird...


I never actually got the shot, but was confident I would
You see everytime I stop to picture a bird (of prey) they're very indifferent to my needs and just swoop away. This time the plan was to take an action shot as it was definitely overhead and exploring me. Without looking at it directly or stopping, I reached fory camera and the plan being, to capture the pic without stopping! Turned out the phone had been left at home but it reminded me.

Like the time (first trip out ever, with panniers) when I did part of The Way of the Roses and slept at a campsite and my Ordos at Lancaster. On the way back I stopped to appreciate the mountains & hills of The Forest of Bowland. It was a tight winding road with no proper stopping places. But me and the motorbiker managed to find a spot to stop and stare at the scene (epic mountain booking thing). But the poor cars had to just keep on going, maybe catching a glance from the corner of the eye without crashing into the hillside or falling off the verge!

The bird, it was definitely (shaped like) a red kite - though looked a bit smaller from what I always expect from a red kite but maybe a teenager! The other 'why' being exactly what I was doing yesterday. Cycling to work without affecting the wildlife, countryside or adding too much fumes to the mix. Commuting is what I bought my first ever mtb for 20 years ago and (God Willing) I'll be able to keep on cycle-commuting and enjoying it.

Mountain biking and the scenery, wildlife and adventure it brings obviously being right in there, overlapping the above mentioned 'why' reasons...