I would suggest a few routes are planned and then issue each route to a set number of people to avoid congestion? It is every ones responsibility to have the route on a suitable GPS device and to take a joint responsibility approach to the ride just as you would if you were riding at home with your mates.

I see your thinking but I'd probably avoid lumping folk together. My reasoning is that, some folk suffer from group ride anxiety and would perhaps find the thought of riding with strangers off-putting. Also, groups will have a harder time finding resupply, overnight spots etc ... that's not so much of an issue for the LHC as they have local knowledge and experience to guide them.

ootini wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:16 pm I'm determined that this year I will make it! Mainly due to the fact that almost all of my bikepacking to date has been solo, and I'm fed up of being a miserable bastard.

No way Dave. That just will NOT DO. I'm hoping to get to the WRT again this year and hopefully not break my own record for what I think was the shortest route ever covered in its history. (To be fair, it was MAM Stu's fault as he was on the maps and we did have to rescue a lot of sheep enroute ...) We shall ride the Fatties together, perhaps? You will also receive an invitation to the 2022 Invitation Only Chilterns Spring Thing (to give it its full name). It is basically a full on catered glamping experience with a small amount of riding thrown in and a lot of focus on beer and food.

And Stu, I'd definitely be up for checking a few pre-built routes. Great idea.

Ooh... I want to join the sad sacks!

TheBrownDog wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:23 pm

ootini wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:16 pm I'm determined that this year I will make it! Mainly due to the fact that almost all of my bikepacking to date has been solo, and I'm fed up of being a miserable bastard.

No way Dave. That just will NOT DO. I'm hoping to get to the WRT again this year and hopefully not break my own record for what I think was the shortest route ever covered in its history. (To be fair, it was MAM Stu's fault as he was on the maps and we did have to rescue a lot of sheep enroute ...) We shall ride the Fatties together, perhaps? You will also receive an invitation to the 2022 Invitation Only Chilterns Spring Thing (to give it its full name). It is basically a full on catered glamping experience with a small amount of riding thrown in and a lot of focus on beer and food.

This sounds like my kind of event. I might readjust my life goals to kick out the TDR and replace it with the IOCST
And yeah, I'm definitely up for forming a fatty gang at the WRT!

I’m with the leave it as it is camp, there’s loads of organised Bikepacking and gravel events but only one WRT. Some people perhaps can’t see the point of no set route, what’s the point if you can’t gauge yourself against other’s performance? There’s always facebook etc for those who desperately need external validation.

Last year I attended the Woods Cyclery ‘Grand Random in the new Forest, it had set routes with a choice of about 5 or six different loops of varying lengths several of which joined up allowing a bit of pick and mix. I picked the 55mile loop but extended it to 70miles so I could wave at Sean on the IOW. Everyone then returned to the field where there was a band, beer and food, great format I’ll be back this year if it goes ahead.

Good idea. While I have basic navigation skills, I've never been to mid-Wales and would struggle to plan a route in a new area. After a couple of trips to get the lie of the land, I'd be happier to put something together myself.

As others have suggested, maybe have the routes different distances? I know that there are some super-fit people on here, but others (me!), who would be happy with something less taxing. Especially when bikes are loaded and hills are around every corner.

I love the format of the wrt as it is so would suggest keeping it, but an option could be a sort of halfway house in that for the extra donation you get given directional segments that cover a nice bit of trail or something, that you then make your own links between.
I realise that the grid points normally hint to these sections anyway but it would help people find the nice direction to do sections in.

Do remember everyone that the format you know and love would remain completely intact. This would simply be an addition to that and not replacing it.

Sounds a good idea to me Stu, people who like the traditional event can still have their (type 2/3) fun whereas some of us who struggle with time etc./or are still relative newbies can have a few pointers and options to choose from.

Do it as a suggested route (s) which you can follow verbatim or use bits of to piece together your own. Again I'm talking for people who don't know the trails. You could throw a horrible death march or two into it for amusement

I'm going to sound like a proper curmudgeon here, but the more I consider this, the more I'm inclined to say no, don't do it.

The WRT gives folks an opportunity to learn, to develop, to go at their own pace, with no set targets.
Would a set route provide you with the joy of lifting your bike over a fence and dragging it through a hedge as yet another line on a map turns out not to exist on the ground? Would it prompt you to ask, "Whose clever idea was it to go over Moel Eiddew, Bear...?" Would it turn to you in the tea room, and say, "We could stay here for another slice of cake, and take a short cut back to base"? I rather think not.

> Lonely Hearts Club is so popular is that there's less to worry about -

Hoho. I tagged onto LHC as a WRT Virgin thinking these folk will have it sorted. I realised my error when we were scratting around at gone midnight for a bivi spot (having left the pub at 10). They were making it up as they went along. I wouldn’t have had it any other way, the looseness added to things.

Quick question while we're on the subject, are non-'boners welcome on the WRT?

tobasco wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:03 pm > Lonely Hearts Club is so popular is that there's less to worry about -

Hoho. I tagged onto LHC as a WRT Virgin thinking these folk will have it sorted. I realised my error when we were scratting around at gone midnight for a bivi spot (having left the pub at 10). They were making it up as they went along. I wouldn’t have had it any other way, the looseness added to things.

That wasn't on my LHC lead, as we slept in the pub's garden on mine

Taking about the Lonely Hearts Club ride, I've asked Stuart recently if I could lead it again and as long as he's not changed his mind in the last few weeks I'll be leading it again this year too..

I always lead rides from the middle with a faster rider who knows the route to head the front and Mike to ride with the tail enders, this year Reg (RIP) has said he'd help so the banter will be flowing all ride long.

A typical route (that I always get Stuart to check over would be like this)

Leave Bear Bones Towers at noon, pub evening meal, shop stop and bothy and bivi outside if needed overnight around mile 22.
Day 2 a longer day with around twice as many miles as day 1 split into 2 with a town food stop and re stock, Wild camp on route.
Day 3 a shorter ride back to Bear Bones Towers.

So 88 miles and 8000ft of ups and downs, with riding 55% on trails, 40% on quiet lanes and 5% on roads.

(Not that I've worked the route out already)

Fitness wise, if you can ride a marathon a day for 2 days in a row you'll be fine in the LHC group as we always ride at the speed of the slowest, but if you can't do that miles maybe take one of Stuarts shorter loops

Bearlegged wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:41 pm Would it prompt you to ask, "Whose clever idea was it to go over Moel Eiddew, Bear...?"

I think my quote at the time was positioned somewhere in the middle between that and "all this fukcing pushing". But of course plan changes and fukcing pushing are very good for the soul (and muscular development) so it was all good .

On balance I think I'm I'm with Bear - most Normals aren't attracted to the WRT anyway and will go to 'organised events' instead, full-on weirdos know exactly what it's all about (in a "it's not about anything" kind of way ), and fence-sitters are probably already catered for by various LHC incarnations.

Even though it would be a little sideline - oh here's a route if you're feeling a bit wibbly - a tiny part of me feels that it dilutes the whole ethos/non-ethos of it.

Then again, ignore all that, if you just feel like doing it Stu that's a good enough reason to do it, because if anything surely Bearboning is about try-it-and-see and that includes the organisational stuff as well as the actual ride.

I realise that hasn't helped much

are non-'boners welcome on the WRT?

Yes absolutely. I view everyone as a Boner but some don't know it yet. Lots of people had their first taste of bikepacking at the WRT - some weren't keen but others found their calling.

I had considered making routes a 'one way ticket' meaning that they'll get you somewhere but you'll need to plan the return or outward leg ... I can see that getting messy though and potentially even harder than planning an entire route.

It's all a bit like parking in a large carpark isn't it - if there's only one, maybe two spaces (routes) you know exactly where to park; if the car park is pretty much empty (pick your own route) you're fcuked and spend half-an-hour deciding on where to park... But at least that way you make your own choice of where to park (where to go)

psling wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:30 am But at least that way you make your own choice of where to park (where to go)

I think parking in car-parks (on the very very rare occasions that I do it) is divided into two camps.

1. ALWAYS park next to someone else even they're the only vehicle in a car-park the size of an airport and that vehicle is in the far corner.
2. ALWAYS park as far away from all other vehicles as possible especially if there's a warden and they're directing you to park in a particular place.

In fact this is a good guide to splitting the entire population of the UK into two types.

Reg is probably the third type of course, ahem.

Or the third option:

We live in a 3D world so stack them and leave the ground floor to others... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxjw23KHBs

I believe the route planning is all part of the spirit of it. It adds to the adventure.

I see no harm in doing so. Why not try, see how many takers you get? You can always use previous ride GPXs and send several on the same route(s) as paces would be different.

car-parks (on the very very rare occasions that I do it) is divided into two camps.

Always park next to a more expensive car than yours which is very easy with a 20 year old Skoda

JohnClimber wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:10 am Taking about the Lonely Hearts Club ride, I've asked Stuart recently if I could lead it again and as long as he's not changed his mind in the last few weeks I'll be leading it again this year too..

Oooo, great stuff.

I’d like to join you again.

Let's not forget that the aim of the LHC is to provide a stepping stone for those who are new to the whole thing or don't yet know anyone and have no one to ride with. Obviously there's nothing to stop people arranging to ride with others but the LHC kind of ceases to be if it's simply a group of regulars, old hands, etc.