Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

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Alpinum
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by Alpinum »

jameso wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:30 am Shafiq, I'd be careful with Alibaba for frames.
Yeah, me too. Just get a BMC or Stoll frame.
:wink:
jameso wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:30 am Yeah, fine with that here if the research/QC has been done. It can be a brand specs it without paying the mold costs on the basis they get eg US market and the manufacturer can sell into Europe via catalogue frames, or the guys in the carbon frame factory R+D making something direct for the catalogue where they either copy most of a popular bike or average some popular bike/brand numbers. That also happens within western brands oc and there are some good rider-designers working at carbon frame producers too, hard to tell which ones but they are out there.
I'm fine too with non China products if the R&D and QC has been done.
:wink:

About time to stop thinking we (westerners) know how it's done.
I've seen/felt/ridden too many carbon frames from top (expensive) brands from the US, made in the US ("proudly" - WTF) to convince me that good practice manufacturing is better established in a certain country.
Some make junk, no matter where.
redefined_cycles
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

Alpinum wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:29 pm
jameso wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:30 am Shafiq, I'd be careful with Alibaba for frames.
Yeah, me too. Just get a BMC or Stoll frame.
:wink:
jameso wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:30 am Yeah, fine with that here if the research/QC has been done. It can be a brand specs it without paying the mold costs on the basis they get eg US market and the manufacturer can sell into Europe via catalogue frames, or the guys in the carbon frame factory R+D making something direct for the catalogue where they either copy most of a popular bike or average some popular bike/brand numbers. That also happens within western brands oc and there are some good rider-designers working at carbon frame producers too, hard to tell which ones but they are out there.
I'm fine too with non China products if the R&D and QC has been done.
:wink:

About time to stop thinking we (westerners) know how it's done.
I've seen/felt/ridden too many carbon frames from top (expensive) brands from the US, made in the US ("proudly" - WTF) to convince me that good practice manufacturing is better established in a certain country.
Some make junk, no matter where.
Been an interesting development at my ends Gian... I had emailed the same folks that had managedy initial purchase (well via the same email feed anyway but it went straight to Alpkit customer service so it's definitely got there). Told them that I wasn't too impressed but mainly shared with them my eye witness account in the form of the thread on here called 'what would you do' .

Today someone got back to me via another email feed and it was the chap that manages warranties and previously told me they wouldn't warranty me any further. He sente the invoice to pay for the crash replacement 'tripe'.

Told him very politely how I had been a customer for over 10 years and for them years I've always been an unofficial brand ambassador due to their alpine bond being so good. That the first time I had seen the warranty needing to be used and this current service wasn't what I'd expected and I had expected at least a bit more from Alpkit (they are a b-corp now which means they go above and beyond for after sales).

No response back of even a 'sorry you feel like that' and instead the invoice he'd sent was just cancelled at their end. Not really the kind of customer service I'd expected at all and childish (imo). In a previous email to them I'd explained the need for myself to 'not lie' due to being managed by the Nursing and Midwifery Council etc etc...

Anyway, appalling, totally and pretty certain I've heard of much better aftersales with some China direct fake/copy ebay/ABB products...

Sonder/Alpkit for me... never again
ScotRoutes
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by ScotRoutes »

Alpinum wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:29 pm About time to stop thinking we (westerners) know how it's done.
I've seen/felt/ridden too many carbon frames from top (expensive) brands from the US, made in the US ("proudly" - WTF) to convince me that good practice manufacturing is better established in a certain country.
Some make junk, no matter where.
Substitute "Titanium" for "Carbon" and that's exactly where we got to with the likes of Lynskey and the supposed superiority of American welding.
redefined_cycles
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

NB. The key point I'm making here is not that the frame failed (which hopefully I've demonstrated here that thw fracture was obviously a weak link in the build process as the rest of it remained so so strong IMO), but the communication process before the sale and after I'd truly needed more help and support.

Anyway, I've invested in a Santa Cruz now and spoke to Stif about the after sales from them (SC) and they agreed with Colin (in their words 'it's second to none'). Pity one has to spend north of £1500 to expect such a thing and hopefully I'll never need it. Pretty sad really (and sorry if I've caused offence to anyone at Sonder or not... that's not my intent).
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Alpinum
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by Alpinum »

ScotRoutes wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:39 pm
Alpinum wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:29 pm About time to stop thinking we (westerners) know how it's done.
I've seen/felt/ridden too many carbon frames from top (expensive) brands from the US, made in the US ("proudly" - WTF) to convince me that good practice manufacturing is better established in a certain country.
Some make junk, no matter where.
Substitute "Titanium" for "Carbon" and that's exactly where we got to with the likes of Lynskey and the supposed superiority of American welding.
Exactly. I was close to include Ti into my post.
redefined_cycles wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:32 pm Not really the kind of customer service I'd expected at all
Yeah, sometimes one wonders what goes through other folk's minds.

Got to know one of the founders at the European Outdoor in 2004. Think his name was Nick. Good stuff, great idea and all. I still like the idea behind what they do and from what I get, how they do it... maybe more how they did it.
Got a Koala from Alpkit a few years ago. Came without a crucial buckle. Someone sew the strap on without the buckle (so much for made in UK :-bd ). They 'sorted' it with "we will send you a buckle. Fix it yourself." I didn't nag and saw the positive sides in it.
Just a bloody saddle bag.

But... you're not alone.
redefined_cycles
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

They 'sorted' it with "we will send you a buckle. Fix it yourself." I didn't nag and saw the positive sides in it.
Just a bloody saddle bag.

But... you're not alone.
They probably didn't want to disturb their superior alpine bond stitching... :lol: Thankfully I only experienced 2 of their BPing bags (and checked out the rest in store).....
jameso
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by jameso »

I'm fine too with non China products if the R&D and QC has been done.
:wink:

About time to stop thinking we (westerners) know how it's done.
I've seen/felt/ridden too many carbon frames from top (expensive) brands from the US, made in the US ("proudly" - WTF) to convince me that good practice manufacturing is better established in a certain country.
Some make junk, no matter where.
Totally agree. Just to be clear in case what I've written has come across wrong to anyone, I'm not saying that where a product is made has anything to do with it's quality. That would make no sense. All I'm getting at is that through experience I'm wary of carbon products where the source and process is unknown.
ScotRoutes
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by ScotRoutes »

Agreed. It's just that nationalism has been (ab)used as a marketing mechanism too.
jameso
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by jameso »

It has, and apologies for going OT as it's an interesting area. Domestic-made does come up as a positive in marketing. I feel good about a frame I have that uses tubes from B'ham and brazing in Coventry. I was a student in the midlands, have been to Reynolds' factory etc, I like the 'close to home' thing. At the same time, nationalism is the daft idea that your country is great/better simply because you were born there. So while I like the close to home aspect, it's not because it's better as an end product. What's left then, why is it nice that I could drive to see where it was made? I can't actually say why, beyond lower impact from a sense that it's saved some shipping fuel.
On the flipside my favourite bike is made in Asia. I love the factory environment there, just being there, and genuinely miss the place since travel restrictions came in, so maybe it's zero to do with locality and more about provenance. That the maker cares or does the right thing, something like that (.."hmm, I can see some fluff in here.." :smile: )
boxelder
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by boxelder »

Yeah, but ice cubes.............
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by ScotRoutes »

Actually speechless.
redefined_cycles
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

I get where you're coming from James... My favourite products are the stuff that comes out of Japan. Not cheap but it appears there is something about the work culture there - I'll try and share my Privateer article about Shimano if I get chance... or was that from Rouleur :???: - they finish late and start early and I doubt they go into work with a hangover. To them 'work' it would appear is a religion and they need to do it the best they can. I'd imagine that 'workers rights' and how they are treated from the top down has summat to do with it.

Currently sat in a farmers car (Subaru Outback H6) which is almost 17 years old but still drives like a dream and my plan is to get it beyond 200k (God Willing).

Anyway... The point is... erm.. I've forgotten.

On a side note (and I'm gonna bring r*pha into this so some might wanna avert their eyes) some companies it appears try to get the best wherever they get their manufacturing from. For example the above mentioned... 2 stories.

1) Bought my first ever jersey from the Manchester store on offer at about £50. Their warranty is supposed to be legendary and the stuff is made in Portugal, China, Turkey etc etc. Merino wool blend and lovely too for which I probably waited about 10 years before investing for the first time ever. Cash flow probably had a part to play.

About 8 months later it started getting some bobbles to the material. I didn't think much of it and definitely didn't think it would come under their legendary aftersales service. Mentioned it once in passing on the cycling telegram group I'm on and my mate Altaf told me I should contact em. So I did with the thought that they'll just wave me on and I would be happy at that.

Next minute I've sent it in for examination, they've got back to me with a voucher code. But not for the £50 I'd bought it for at reduced cost... Nope, a full £80 or £100 as thats what their jerseys usually cost. Asked em if I could be cheeky and still get back my original as a momento and they did (though explaining that it's not the done thing). Still wear that jersey with great joy and since then I've gotten at least 2 more of their garments.

Then at some point I bought their hardshell jacket. From fleabay and after some time I had zip problems (it's a welded affair and maybe I ironed too close to it when re-proofing it). Made contact and before long I had a code for a shiny new jacket in my inbox. No lying involved anywhere of the above and not even a reciept produced or asked for. Suffice to say that if anything of theirs falls apart on me now (short of getting in sent for the legendary crash repair service to tick the eco-box) I'll just keep using it and they'll not hear anything from me at all. R*pha you good ladies n gents....

2) The story of HJ hall, which is the socks made in Nottingham for mamy many years. Proudly (and why wouldnt they be), and only recently they decided to move the manufacturing to China or somewhere due to overheads. I was a bit worried that the quality would go down and I base the quality on their £7 sixty percent wool thicky socks. Had the Nott ones but also bought the China ones. Both as good as each other (and for durability and everything else they literqlly blow the Endura Baa Baa out of the water... the Baa Baas are good though).

3) I'll not even start with the £28 Darn Tough (made im vancouver) which are just as they're described. Never claimed on the lifetime warranty service (even for wearing out) but the online reports speak for themselves. Can't wait for the day I buy a second pair...

Next up, the story of Rolls Royce (as told me 10 years ago by my mechanic-bus driver colleague).
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

boxelder wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:34 am Yeah, but ice cubes.............
Image
:lol: what's wrong with that :lol: :lol:
boxelder
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by boxelder »

what's wrong with that :lol: :lol:
Well, it could be from a crystal clear spring in the Cambrian/Cumbrian/Grampian Mountains, or dipped from Warping Drain in Scunthorpe.
Still better than that French muck I guess.
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by johnnystorm »

boxelder wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:34 am Yeah, but ice cubes.............
Image
For once this doesn't irk me as shipping a ubiquitous liquid around the globe in frozen form is less annoying if it's travelled a shorter distance.
Image
redefined_cycles
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

johnnystorm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:32 pm
boxelder wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:34 am Yeah, but ice cubes.............
Image
For once this doesn't irk me as shipping a ubiquitous liquid around the globe in frozen form is less annoying if it's travelled a shorter distance.
That makes perfect sense and might be the reason for the 'disclaimer' from the 'packers'
boxelder
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by boxelder »

For once this doesn't irk me as shipping a ubiquitous liquid around the globe in frozen form is less annoying if it's travelled a shorter distance.
I'd just assumed it would always be British water, as why would anyone pay to ship it.
That makes perfect sense and might be the reason for the 'disclaimer' from the 'packers'
You're too nice Sir - it's a retailer playing to Brexit/Nationalist (non)sensibilities. I'm disappointed by Co-op, as they do so much, so well.
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

boxelder wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:45 pm
For once this doesn't irk me as shipping a ubiquitous liquid around the globe in frozen form is less annoying if it's travelled a shorter distance.
I'd just assumed it would always be British water, as why would anyone pay to ship it.
That makes perfect sense and might be the reason for the 'disclaimer' from the 'packers'
You're too nice Sir - it's a retailer playing to Brexit/Nationalist (non)sensibilities. I'm disappointed by Co-op, as they do so much, so well.
:grin: we have this thing (ie. as taught by the uslamic scholars after investigating the literature/statements/Quran etc)... it goes summat along the lines of 'giving benefit of the doubt' which I'm always trying to remind myself :lol:

In other news. I just sent some tires to shutupthepunx who's in sweden. Marked it as a gift (cos it is now to tick the box and not lie). Discussing with the postie chap regards ensuring no hidden costs at Ryans end. Lady behind me told us that she'd sent a gift of 2 dresses for the kids in spain. Obviously a gift and marked as such. Spanish authorities still decided that it should be chargeable to the recipeint who had to pay the equivalent of £28 in fees :o

Looks like the EU is trying to punish us. But I'm not sure whats the right answer cos France is a big part of it right (?)... They've just started or passed laws (along with yhe hijaab bans for muslim women who wish to cover their hair/face/body) stating that halal meat is now unlawful :smile:

Funny old world it's all becoming I suppose. Before that they just went back the decapitated heads of some of the leaders of previous african colonies. They'd had em stored in the museum apparently. I'll stop there anyhow as it seems the world is a wierd place only getting wierder :shock:
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by voodoo_simon »

boxelder wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:45 pm
For once this doesn't irk me as shipping a ubiquitous liquid around the globe in frozen form is less annoying if it's travelled a shorter distance.
I'd just assumed it would always be British water, as why would anyone pay to ship it.
People are naive enough to buy Evian...
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by johnnystorm »

redefined_cycles wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:43 pm
Lady behind me told us that she'd sent a gift of 2 dresses for the kids in spain. Obviously a gift and marked as such. Spanish authorities still decided that it should be chargeable to the recipeint who had to pay the equivalent of £28 in fees :o
That's not punishment, that's what happens.

See below for a chap sending his family an old laptop from Spain and HMRC requiring £160 of fees.

It's called taking back control! :wink:

https://www.thelocal.es/20210131/brexit ... nd-the-uk/
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redefined_cycles
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Re: Sonder Transmitter Carbon: How strong is it again!

Post by redefined_cycles »

johnnystorm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:57 pm
redefined_cycles wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:43 pm
Lady behind me told us that she'd sent a gift of 2 dresses for the kids in spain. Obviously a gift and marked as such. Spanish authorities still decided that it should be chargeable to the recipeint who had to pay the equivalent of £28 in fees :o
That's not punishment, that's what happens.

See below for a chap sending his family an old laptop from Spain and HMRC requiring £160 of fees.

It's called taking back control! :wink:

https://www.thelocal.es/20210131/brexit ... nd-the-uk/
:lol:
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