That's very true Peter. Some people really do struggle once the enforced routine is removed and the honeymoon period over.

I guess a big factor is whether you have kids or not, and their age

Without kids you can do stuff for your benefit without impacting anyone else. I know everyone makes their life choices yada yada

psling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:25 pmAnd, having said that, when you have so much free time it can be surprising how frustrating it can be to find the time to do all the things you want to do as other things fall into your diary because you have more time (if you see what I mean)!

Think Kevin has said that in another thread.

Because you have all the time to do stuff theres less motivation to do it.
Whereas if you have to fit stuff into a weekend/after work/holidays theres a bit more motivation to get stuff done.

You certainly need some self discipline. It's easy to become lost without a reason to get up. Losing any sense of accomplishment is also easy to do, so again, you need something.

Weirdly, over the years I think I've had more people tell me that they couldn't live my life than those who said they could. I do appreciate that might be a lot to do with location though ... just an aside.

Enjoying life in your 20s, moving countries 3 times in your 30s and then having two kids in your 40s isn't conducive to a good retirement plan. Or free time for that matter.

Chew wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:32 pm

psling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:25 pmAnd, having said that, when you have so much free time it can be surprising how frustrating it can be to find the time to do all the things you want to do as other things fall into your diary because you have more time (if you see what I mean)!

Think Kevin has said that in another thread.

Because you have all the time to do stuff theres less motivation to do it.
Whereas if you have to fit stuff into a weekend/after work/holidays theres a bit more motivation to get stuff done.

There's that saying - if you want something done, give it to a busy person

Not true in all circumstances, but for the procrastinators amongst us, like me, having all the time in the world would be a bit of a problem...

sean_iow wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:17 pm

Dave Barter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:08 pm

ton wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:10 pm Dave, i think the worry is, when you have never had anything, the thought of giving it away (to invest) is a scary thing to do.

I get that which is why I like premium bonds for the nervous invester as there is zero risk, roughly 1% interest and the possibility of a million quid

Premium Bonds are great, Jane's got £20K (money from when she sold her chalet) and it's surprising how often she wins £20, which we wisely reinvests in wine

The only other thing I will add is a large sum of money in a current account is scammer hunting ground.

psling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:25 pm These discussions always centre around money and, to be fair. that is probably the major consideration.

But, IMO it is also a lifestyle thing; living without the routine of work can be mentally quite stressful, filling the time between each living-the-dream, erm, dream can be quite boring unless you can adapt to the pace of life.
And, having said that, when you have so much free time it can be surprising how frustrating it can be to find the time to do all the things you want to do as other things fall into your diary because you have more time (if you see what I mean)!

I recognise all of the above.

I watched something on YouTube the other night about a dude who lived in caves in Moab with literally no money. He scavenged his food from dumpsters. He had a bike too.

I like the idea of selling up and going on tour to never return picking up bits of work as needed though.

Richpips wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:32 pm

I like the idea of selling up and going on tour to never return picking up bits of work as needed though.

That certainly sounds appealing,

FLV wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:32 pm

Richpips wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:32 pm

I like the idea of selling up and going on tour to never return picking up bits of work as needed though.

That certainly sounds appealing,

I followed some bloke on twitter a while back doing just this. He stayed on organic farms and worked for food and accommodation. It has a name, something like Hoofing? Anyway he lasted about 6 months until the novelty wore off.

I once had a Dutch lad stay with me who did exactly this ^. Travelled, the world on his bike and worked as and when. He reckoned his biggest fear was how he'd cope when the time finally came when he had to return to some kind of (what people might consider) normal life.

EDIT: unlike the bloke Dave's stalking, the Dutch lad had been at it around 10 years.

There's also an interesting life to be had mooching around Europe dog sitting in other people's houses, although probably not feasible post Brexit as you're only able to do it in 90 day time slots.

nyway he lasted about 6 months until the novelty wore off.

When the kids were little we sold up and travelled for 6 months round Europe. Towards the end finding somewhere to stay, the supermarket, the launderette etc started to annoy.

JohnClimber wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:18 pm I'm now counting the days until freedom.

That was me, 10/15 years ago. But the nearer it got, the less I wanted to retire. How sad is that? My solution was to persuade another old f@rt to job-share. We do one persons job, working shifts, two days on, six days off. Done this for over six years now. Don’t regret it at all. It gets my face shaved twice a week

I’m lucky though. My job is one I’ve done for over twenty years, it’s not too taxing, and I like the people I work with. The company keep giving me money so I see no reason to stop. When my mates ask how long I’ll carry on, I joke that I’ll stay ‘til the dementia gets me.

I could manage on my state and private pensions, but why? This way, if there’s a job that I don’t fancy doing, I can PSE it.

Incidentally, speaking of dementia, I had a conversation with the cardio rehab nurse today. She said I should take more care - work to a level that I can still hold a conversation. Ha! I said that she’s trying to to stop me having a nice clean heart attack and condemning me to a lingering death of Alzheimer’s or something.

Interesting discussion. To answer the original question, you need to define meagre, as other people have said, and that's very different for different people. I don't think of my lifestyle as lavish by any means, but someone earning minimum wage and scraping by would probably think otherwise.

I know they say you need to look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves, but frankly looking after the pounds directly is more efficient. By which I mean the big stuff: children (none), house (modest), car (cheap, bought outright), Sky (don't even have a TV), phone (which really shouldn't be in the big stuff list, but I've seen what some people pay every month ).

By having relatively meagre lifestyle, and a relatively well-paid job, I'm able to work 4 days a week. I could of course work 5 days a week and retire sooner but retirement age seems to be getting further away rather than closer, I'd rather have more free time while I'm younger (I'm 32), and I might get hit by a bus tomorrow (though I'd have to actually leave the house for that to happen so it's pretty unlikely at the moment).

This works pretty well for me. I have more free time (not enough - one thing I've learned is that there'll never be enough) but still enough money to live comfortably. The freedom of a complete lack of committed work is appealing in some senses but I know sooner or later I'd get tired of the insecurity and the constant compromise. I like being able to buy a new bike when I feel like it, not have to go hungry if the washing machine breaks down, and splurge £40 on posh beer on occasion (OK, semi-regular occasion ).

Dave Barter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:41 pm It has a name, something like Hoofing?

WWOOFing. Can't remember what it stands for, but think the OF is organic farming, but it's much broader than that. A couple of friends, both qualified doctors who could afford a "normal" holiday have had a couple of decent holidays that way in recent years, e.g. two weeks helping with the (grape?) harvest in the south of France. Sounds like quite a nice way to have a more interesting holiday if you're like me and can't sit still on a beach for more than half an hour. Obviously depends on the specific host though. I'm digressing...

Richpips wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:01 pm

nyway he lasted about 6 months until the novelty wore off.

When the kids were little we sold up and travelled for 6 months round Europe. Towards the end finding somewhere to stay, the supermarket, the launderette etc started to annoy.

We managed 2 then 9-11 happened and we scuttled home worried that things would get silly. Sadly they didn’t and I wished we’d stayed out longer.

That's the second time I've heard the term WOOFING today, our Swiss freind was talking about them, it stands for Willing Workers On Organic Farms, as a host you give them basic board and lodging in return for working on harvesting, maintenence etc. Like everything there's good and bad stories from both parties.

I’m sure others have done this, but try living off what cash you’d have from that meagre lifestyle now and see how you get on for 6 months?
Putting the remainder of your cash in a savings account.

You can then see how realistic it is.
(Plus your ability to go and live that lifestyle may not be possible in the short term anyway)

I think one thing that the lockdown has taught many people is the importance of some things, but that the rest is just ‘stuff’. My spending on the trappings of an office life (buying daily coffees and lunches) has dropped significantly, so I could foresee easily absorbing a few pay cuts for less stress.

I’m targeting 62 to retire but will likely assess closer to the time.

One thing to stress to anyone considering retiring at an age other than 65 is to ensure your pension providers know this. This is because your investment will usually shift towards less risky (but lower growth) investments a few years from retirement. If your retirement age is wrong you either introduce too much volatility at your retirement date, or instead don’t maximise the time in higher growth funds.

I retired at 55 with every intention of going back to work. In the end I did two short stints of part time work and then Mrs Mac said she would prefer me to not work anymore. We did a fag packet calculation and we can get by okay on my pension without too many worries. Our kids have long flown the coop and our mortgage is that low I'm not even bothering paying it off early.
So I haven't worked at all for the past year, and it is just like Peter says, I haven't got any free time at all but everything I do is what I want to do, apart from Mrs Mac's projects.
We haven't really had to compromise to make it work but we we've never bothered about new cars and the like either.
If you can do it, it's a nice feeling.

really nice to hear how people are weighing things up or have already made the move to make an early retirement work for them.

ive been doing it since 2009. squatting, hitchhiking, protest sites, skipping food (as in eating food from supermarket bins, not 'missing meals'), occasionally doing whatever kinda work for 6 weeks and live off it 5 months sorta thing. (not always those numbers/ratios but u get the idea). have done all kinds of sub standard jobs.

was based generally in a city in the same city in northern england the first 5 years. up until 2 years ago i never worked for longer than 3 months at a time. the end is always in sight when i start a job (even if the employer doesn't know it). i am very anti work. bob black is my homeboy.

- im guessing id earn/spend maybe between 3 and £5000 a year. maybe 6000 some years? no idea really.
- not paying rent REALLY helps
- no bnbs, hotels, paid campsites.
- no resturants. takeway treat v rarely.
- no kids
- if buying something alot of the time its 2nd hand
- plenty of travelling, mainly europe but a little further afield also
- time/experience rich but money poor
- take long/slow way round cause its cheaper. for example i could fly to dublin. but why do that when i could (all tickets booked on the day they went on sale) take a £1 megabus to london, then wait, and take a £1 megabus to pembrokshire (which included a footpassanger ticket to ireland), then ive already been travelling 27hrs at this point but theres nothin else for it but to spend the rest of the day hitching to dublin. then do the same thing in reverse on the way back. i done that journey maybe 5 or 6 times. ive endless examples of some longwinded elongated trip that in the end got me to wherever. not as attractive/tolerable as i get older.

before someone asks, there was no enheritance, no bank of mummyanddaddy or living off handouts (ok i doled it on and off for the first 2yrs but apart from that no workin tax credits or owt)

im living in scandinavia this past 6 years (minus a 2 year stint in blightey to work cos the constantly low-level-worrying-about-money was taking its toll) and ive lived similarily here except ruraly.

in the past few years the constantly broke thing began to really get to me. i felt i was broke when i my money was runnin out and i needed to find work, and i was broke when i had just worked and had money cause id want to make it last a fair while (but at the samw time its nice to splash out a bit when you can) and didnt know when id next get work again.

its easy to romanticise this life but its not all as fun as it sounds. its well turd being stuck in paris for 3 days in january not able to catch a hitch out and 'sleeping' in doorways (urban audex-hotelling?) etc etc. regardless, ups and downs its been my choosing (well, not the individual ups and downs themselves but the whole package). its also quite 'normal' in my circles/world. the majority of my friends are doing something similar, to various degrees.

im simplifying i know but to go to school from age 5 until 16, then work from 16 until you're 67 isnt my idea of a good time. 50 years (!) given away to someone else. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 50 years. then if u live that long to then retire, only to, if ur lucky, live another 13 years and the last 4 of that was in a nursing home.

that work is to be the dominant thing is life is mad. 'free time' what a crazy concept. [a quick google...] "free time - time available for hobbies and other activities that you enjoy. spare time. time off - a time period when you are not required to work"

chasing the great dream of enjoing life when im older, and my body is completely spent, doesn't appeal. that carrots too far away for me. too much can happen in the time inbetween. average uk male lifespan 79.4 years. say the first 15 years at school, last 15 years you're goosed and the inbetween, work yer socks off to 'get ahead'.

whats that quote about your life being the sum of your days, or something? anyway theres some wise one liner about what we do in our day to day becomes what we do or have done in our life. no job, regardless of how sub standard or grand/prestigious, is how i want to spend so much of my life. also i heard i think a comedian jokingly talk about how someone being old and on their death and looking bacj on their life is never gonna be like "i wish i spent more time on the internet/watching netflix/being on facebook/scrolling on my phone etc" and i think thats really good to remind myself every so often.

im now in my 30s and living rent free in a 2.5x6m cabin without leccy or water maybe 1.5km from a village (hamlet?) of 11 people (the majority of whom live similairly as described here, 'cept in houses with leccy and water and i say that with envy, not disaproval). as mentioned above i spent 2 years working full time. this was to save money so as to not have to stress for a while. was also interesting to try something different to what my life pattern for the past while became. i did it, i saved up money to maybe live 2 years and stocked up on toys had been on the wishlist for quite sometime. i dont plan to do it again. its been over 6 months since i left that job and i try to take a 'big trip' every month. cycling, hiking, paddling, or skiing. so far theyve been between 4 and 14 days.

i have never paid into a pension and doubt state pensions will be a thing by the time i roll around. im guessing ill croke it before then anyway and if not well il hopefully have lived a good life up to that point. instead of the standard 'work now, enjoy later'. maybe im going for a more 'enjoy now, worry about later later' approach i dunno.

im aware that when i say something like 'working some sub standard job all my life doesn't sound like fun to me' that it not really anyones idea of fun. we are all trapped in this sh!tshow. im trying to carve out a place for myself as best i can. hope it doesnt come across like im judging anyone. i feel like my opinions on work are hard to express without coming across as a privlidged lazy prick.

pfhwoo that was a bit of a wopper

Wow, Shutupthepunx that's quite an inspirational way to live. Too extreme (and too late in life) for me to copy but inspirational nonetheless. I'd love to dabble in the whole vanlife thing when I retire but SWMBO has a chronic illness that restricts our lifestyle to something more conventional. Good on you for ploughing your own furrow though, it takes guts.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:39 pm You certainly need some self discipline. It's easy to become lost without a reason to get up. Losing any sense of accomplishment is also easy to do, so again, you need something.

Weirdly, over the years I think I've had more people tell me that they couldn't live my life than those who said they could. I do appreciate that might be a lot to do with location though ... just an aside.

I think the difference is Stu like me you enjoy playing with engines and you still get to have your passion for hands on stuff ( or most times I’ve visited you you’ve had a motor bike in pieces) I had a job when I hit 40 , 4 on 4 off a reasonable wage good pension and sick pay , 1 truck for service / repair in a 12 hour shift and I got bored so after 7 years I left and got back on the racing around all day , everybody is made up differently, if I have more than 10days off no matter how I’ve filled them I start to get narky and can’t wait to get back to work ,obviously I go to work for the few quid but I actually enjoy having a hard day problem solving and putting things right there’s quite a sense of achievement for me out of it , in my head I’m going at 60 but depending on health I really don’t think I will .There’s something to say about having a great satisfaction out of your job as I’ve told my young fella who leaves school this year make your decision carefully about what you want to do with the rest of your life as it’s not just about the money

Couple of random thoughts, not aimed at anyone at all

- for those closer to retirement, and those that have recently retired (and older) - it's more likely that they'll DB pensions than for other generations, so the ability to retire early is more of an option. Yes, you'll have to accept early retirement factors, but it's still a nice position to be in

- I think there's a difference between working in a job you don't like and doing something you find fulfilling - emotionally, intellectually etc. If you paid me not to work then I probably wouldn't, but I still enjoy what I do. It's work, not play, but they're paying me. If it was something I hated then I'd be looking for an escape option for sure. I'd love to do less of it, but I'd then get paid less.