stevenshand wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:29 pm That's not really how it works. Countries signed up for common VAT rules simply charge the VAT as they would on any other domestic sale. So if you're a business in Germany, you charge VAT on your sale to everyone in the EU as they are all in the common VAT group. This used to include the UK. That German company notes on their VAT return that they collected VAT from an overseas sale and that money is paid to the local government. Behind the scenes, the countries all have agreements on how that VAT is distributed among the members of the common VAT group. It's not done on a sale-by-sale basis.

Happy to be proved wrong, but pretty sure Steve is right on this. Each company gets an 'EU Sales' doc. As we're now 'out' of the EU, HMRC will still require the tax revenue, but it appears that they're trying to collect it via a different method..

Wotsits wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:21 pm Happy to be proved wrong, but pretty sure Steve is right on this. Each company gets an 'EU Sales' doc. As we're now 'out' of the EU, HMRC will still require the tax revenue, but it appears that they're trying to collect it via a different method..

On re-reading this, I'm not sure I was correct. I was talking about how it used to work and I had made some assumptions on how it would work now. I think those assumptions might not be correct. If I'm reading the text of this :

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... he-changes

properly, then I'm a little baffled. Surely that isn't the case now for countries that have always been outside the EU? If I'm buying something from a retailer in the US or Canada or SA or NZ or Albania, are those retailers really registered for VAT in the UK and are submitting UK VAT returns? That would be like me (Wildcat) having to register for sales tax in every country we might sell into, then submitting a return to that country? That can't be right can it? If it really does mean that, then I could totally see why any country that doesn't do a massive amount of business with the UK would just stop selling there.

That's exactly the problem as I read it, they need to register with HRMC and do a tax return. And it costs to register.

So it's much easier to just not send to the UK now. We're the only county to do this. The fee is (I think) £1000 so if all 195 counties did this you'd have to find £195k in fees to be able to offer your products globally.

This was due to be implemented by both the EU and UK on 1st Jan but the EU have delayed implementation until July. The intent is to clamp down on small value sales (under £135) avoiding VAT. So now all imported goods are subject to the same rules.

However the EU also have decided that if the seller doesn't apply the VAT and forward it to them then the tax is payable by the consumer at the point of entry. The UK decided not to implement this backstop.

The package I had from the USA just before New Year had the VAT collected by Royal Mail before they would deliver it. I'm quite happy to pay the VAT and this seems a sensible way to collect it, which is obviously why they've decided to do something else

Seems very confusing and nearly unworkable. Hey ho, situation normal

Tis confusing, just had a quick look & i can't make head-nor-tail of what i've done previously!

A product made in the UK but can't be bought by UK customers because it's dispatched from the EU. The entire shitshow just gets shittier

As much as I think Brexit is a massive shitshow, I think the most ridiculous thing about the Brooks saga is that products are shipped to Italy to be shipped back to the UK. The new EU border has just made that more apparent.

thenorthwind wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:47 am As much as I think Brexit is a massive shitshow, I think the most ridiculous thing about the Brooks saga is that products are shipped to Italy to be shipped back to the UK. The new EU border has just made that more apparent.

I agree, that whole situation is ludicrous.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:42 am A product made in the UK but can't be bought by UK customers because it's dispatched from the EU. The entire shitshow just gets shittier

I think that example is about as stupid as it gets but it's also a little bit of an inaccurate headline grabber (the story, not your posting of it). It's my understanding that all UK made saddles that are destined for UK retail, never leave the UK. They get shipped from the factory to the UK distributors and then out to retail. The story above is for direct sales and since they sell all over the world, having centralised shipping in the EU makes sense. But it does highlight the shitshow we're all in.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:42 am A product made in the UK but can't be bought by UK customers because it's dispatched from the EU. The entire shitshow just gets shittier

I think it's just the saddles purchased from the website. Brooks are owned by Selle and their distribution is based in Italy, presumably they've only the one warehouse. Head to an LBS (if they are open in this lockdown) and you'll be able to get one. Don't know about the B2B distribution if that is similar or Brooks distribute directly to shops in this country.

It's not an atypical setup these days though - beef production in this country is similarly bizarre due to varying customer demands and loopholes in regulations.

B2B distro is done by Extra in the UK.

Heres the feedback from bike24, received today

"Thank you for your e-mail.
DHL has stopped parcel shipping to the UK and Ireland with immediate effect. The reason is the closure of the ferry connections and also the Eurotunnel due to Corona.

Deliveries to Ireland remain blocked in our store until further notice. As soon as the situation has been clarified, the delivery countries will be unlocked again."

So its a delivery issue, not a tax one according to them.

It's interesting that when I put something into my basket on aliexpress it automatically adds the 20% VAT to the bill, but doing the same on eBay (with goods stated to be located in China) doesn't.

Fun one today

Bought something in Germany in December (in order to get it before Brexit) and thusly paid taxes etc.
It didn't arrive and just got a note from UPS asking for the import taxes now.

No idea where this leaves me, its not much so will likely just suck it up.

FLV wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:13 pm Fun one today

Bought something in Germany in December (in order to get it before Brexit) and thusly paid taxes etc.
It didn't arrive and just got a note from UPS asking for the import taxes now.

No idea where this leaves me, its not much so will likely just suck it up.

How did you pay? I bought something in December and it was deceived just before New Year but it came from the USA and I had to pay the duty. There was no indication on the website that it would be dispatched from abroad. I emailed them and got no response, so after a waiting a week I opened a PayPal dispute asking for a partial refund to the value of the duty and handling fee, I got the refund the next day.

So if you paid by PayPal you'll probably be able to claim the duty/fees back, I think companies would rather pay up than fall out with PayPal, especially if it's obvious you've in the right.

sean_iow wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:20 pm

FLV wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:13 pm Fun one today

Bought something in Germany in December (in order to get it before Brexit) and thusly paid taxes etc.
It didn't arrive and just got a note from UPS asking for the import taxes now.

No idea where this leaves me, its not much so will likely just suck it up.

How did you pay? I bought something in December and it was deceived just before New Year but it came from the USA and I had to pay the duty. There was no indication on the website that it would be dispatched from abroad. I emailed them and got no response, so after a waiting a week I opened a PayPal dispute asking for a partial refund to the value of the duty and handling fee, I got the refund the next day.

So if you paid by PayPal you'll probably be able to claim the duty/fees back, I think companies would rather pay up than fall out with PayPal, especially if it's obvious you've in the right.

Good plan, thanks

sean_iow wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:20 pm
deceived just before New Year

Seems to sum the whole situation up Sean .

Lots of others in the same boat....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ort-duties

Lots of others in the same boat....

Haven't much sympathy for anyone who admits to buying a 'premium jumpsuit' to be honest.

dont blame you stu and the cheap ones look lovely on you whatever the haters say

Looks like things are going to get worse before getting better - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55740063. Not Brexit but the Covid related fubar of the world's freight distribution network. There's been a snarl-up at Felixstowe for several months meaning there's a backlog of shipping. From the linked article, a quote from a Chinese manufacturer:

He says he's now being quoted $14,000 to ship a container to the UK, when the usual price is $2,500.

Also shipping companies are charging more to ship to the UK than the EU so importers are then trucking the containers from the EU at a cost of £2000 and a seven to ten day delay.

Part of the problem at Felixstowe was the backlog of PPE that was sourced that didn't meet regulations. This was clogging up the Dock at premium storage rates (deliberately excessive to encourage quick collection). Some of it has now been shifted down to Ipswich docks where it's cheaper, albeit still daft money. I think eventually it'll get put on one of our many WW2 airfields where the Govt will hope people will forget about it until the use by date has passed and it can then go into landfill.