Tour Divide 2019

[Pirahna]

Josh Kato on experience alone.

I'm hoping Alex Watts, Tea Boy on Trackleaders will do well. He's been doing a silly amount of miles in preparation for this. Those who saw him on the Yorkshire Divide for example, he rode there and back from his home in Essex. He's been racing all over the country doing the same. He's on a sabbatical at the moment, last minute prep included the Trans Germany a couple of weeks ago.

[sean_iow]

I also think Alex (and also Josh Ibbett) should do well, they have both done lots of miles in prep. I would have picked one of them but didn't want to add to the pressure and I don't know how much of an advantage having raced the route before is?

Alex's Watts ride time for the Dales Divide (moving time on strava) was 36:48 hours. Alex Pilkingtons was 40:37 but he finished 8 hours ahead of Alex Watts. Alex Watts (why did they both have to be Alex's ) rode it at his TD pace with all his kit so he certainty has the legs for it so should do well.

Edit, When I spoke to him at the start of the Dales Divide he came across as really nice chap, very friendly and very enthusiastic, which always helps

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think you're all forgetting that Dave has a carbon fibre toothbrush and a bag full of soft stickers.

[Chicken Legs]

Evan Deutsch is going to be in the mix, is riding well and has the ability to ride a record time, really interesting
TD line up this year.
Lots of discussion on Facebook about Lael being filmed by her parner and Jay Petervary signed off with "I'm out" which will be a shame if that means he is not going to race because of this issue.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Lots of discussion on Facebook about Lael being filmed by her parner and Jay Petervary signed off with "I'm out" which will be a shame if that means he is not going to race because of this issue.

Perhaps Dave could give him a sticker?

[sean_iow]

I fear the filming issue will overshadow her ride and any achievement she makes. I haven't checked the TD rules but Alan's HT550 rules make it clear.

NOTE: A time trial completed with friends, family or media following the ride, effectively acting as a sag-wagon, is not a true self-supported effort.

The problem athletes like Lael face is that they are sponsored and what the sponsors require is exposure of their products. An advertising campaign that says "Lael used our kit on the Tour Divide - but we don't have any pictures of it" doesn't make for good copy.

The sponsored athletes that don't have to work for a living are effectively 'professional' bike riders in my opinion so this will become more of an issue with the 'underground' races. It's a shame as I'm sure she's capable of an outright win, but if the film goes ahead there will always be an issue with it and the result. JP is not the only one with an issue, other previous winners have also said it breaks the rules.

[Bearbonesnorm]

All true ^ Sean but the TD appears to be becoming more of a circus with each passing year. I also wonder whether being filmed, especially if you want the footage to look 'pro' would actually be more of a hindrance to achieving a fast time?

[redefined_cycles]

Who are your picks for the win?

I'm going to say Josh Kato for the overall. I think Nick Skarakew will be the first singlespeeder and may challenge for the overall. If you've never heard of him I found out about him on the Hidden Athlete podcast which is worth a listen.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/thehidden ... ZzqZtPDI4Q

I've listened to a few of these now (only the bikepack racers so far) and they are really interesting so worth a listen if you have the time.

I'm gonna say Lael Cox... Seen a video of hers ages ago aswell and remember thinking, what a tough cookie. Plus this year she's said she's aiming for it

[jameso]

I've not seen the TD FB page but if Lael's being filmed as she rides that's controversial, needs to be done in a way that's not detracting from the no-doubt impressive ride she'll do. I hope/expect they know what they're doing. She's a cool rider, would like to see her win it and not just end up as more big-brand sponsored content that undermines her riding.

Why not make a film of a rider? If it's done in sympathy to the rules and from a distance I don't see the problem - no-one comments on the level of social media twittering and instagramming that goes on during races now, probably from a lot of riders who'd say being filmed is a form of support. Could be seen as hypocritical imo?

(a few riders were filmed in the Trans-Am, not seen the film but was that done in a way that was OK with the S-S rules?)

I don't know how much of an advantage having raced the route before is?

A huge advantage I'd say, in terms of logistics, pacing/staging and breaking down the scale of it all. Also a disadvantage when you understand that scale and have to go back to do it again Depends why you're doing it I guess. For the more dedicated racer the knowledge would be invaluable. Mike Hall said something along the lines of it almost being a waste to ride it only once because the experience was worth so much second time round.

JP is not the only one with an issue, other previous winners have also said it breaks the rules.

Edit to add.. On reflection, of course they're right. The race is meant to follow the GDR and that was following Stamstad's ITT with a group start. Tricky though, in many ways the only way to follow Stamstad's example or do anything truly self-supported is the first-time ITT. Matt Lee said some fairly pragmatic things about the changes smart phones brought to the TDR and perhaps accepting the event's status (rightly or wrongly) means accepting media interest with provisos. It should be self-policing but there's also a King Kanute element to it all.

[pistonbroke]

Re Dave's bag of stickers, hope you got a special set printed with a liberal sprinkling of the f and c word eg Stop Being A Soft C***.

[johnnystorm]

Jay Petervary is out because Lael is being filmed?

The same Jay that used a sail, cadged a lift on a snowmobile and did an ITT TD record attempt while being filmed for a Salsa promo. Great rider and all that but really....

[jameso]

Jay Petervary is out because Lael is being filmed?

The same Jay that used a sail, cadged a lift on a snowmobile and did an ITT TD record attempt while being filmed for a Salsa promo. Great rider and all that but really....

Yeah that crossed my mind too. He's proven himself pretty well since all that though (and I'm aware of how that comment isn't consistent with my attitude toward Pro roadie dopers).. He's racing the SRMR again so maybe more to do with the timing.

[Justchris]

All true ^ Sean but the TD appears to be becoming more of a circus with each passing year. I also wonder whether being filmed, especially if you want the footage to look 'pro' would actually be more of a hindrance to achieving a fast time?

Sleep deprived, hungry and pissed off? The last thing someone would want half way down would be an interview etc. I wouldn't tolerate it.

Apparently Mathew Lee asked Lael to Race with no phone on her. Her journalist friends have spots on them as well.

[sean_iow]

Her journalist friends...

I understand one of them is her partner which is what makes it so controversial?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sleep deprived, hungry and pissed off? The last thing someone would want half way down would be an interview etc. I wouldn't tolerate it.

Surely, it's exactly that kind of thing that people would want to see? Besides, if you've planned to be filmed from the outset, then you can't really complain about someone filming you, can you?

I think what makes this more controversial is the fact that she's fast, with a well proven record. No one would really give a toss if it were some unknown ... Ride the Divide springs to mind.

[jameso]

Sleep deprived, hungry and pissed off? The last thing someone would want half way down would be an interview etc. I wouldn't tolerate it.

Surely, it's exactly that kind of thing that people would want to see? Besides, if you've planned to be filmed from the outset, then you can't really complain about someone filming you, can you?

I think what makes this more controversial is the fact that she's fast, with a well proven record. No one would really give a toss if it were some unknown ... Ride the Divide springs to mind.

I expect it's all to do with sponsorship, though after seeing her bike I'm not sure how Specialized are getting good PR from it (kidding, mostly )
And not aimed at you but did this topic come up when Lee Cragie rode and filmed with Ricky Cotter?

It's a shame that we don't have the call-ins and remote tracking as our only way to follow a race like this, some of the speculation and interest is lost the more immediate the coverage gets and the post-ride coverage/reports lose something too. But, youtube and instagram innit

[metalheart]

And not aimed at you but did this topic come up when Lee Cragie rode and filmed with Ricky Cotter?

This also crossed my mind...

I think that shes gunning for the overall win/record has people running scared... personally I think it’d be fucking vaguely exciting (you go girl!).

Delighted to spot Sweary Dave is as poor show at packing his ortlieb seat pack as me

[redefined_cycles]

Lots of discussion on Facebook about Lael being filmed by her parner and Jay Petervary signed off with "I'm out" which will be a shame if that means he is not going to race because of this issue.

Perhaps Dave could give him a sticker?

Sorry... I know this is meant to be a serious discussion and so is the comment.. But maybe you should send forth a toothbrush aswell

[Bearbonesnorm]

And not aimed at you but did this topic come up when Lee Cragie rode and filmed with Ricky Cotter?

In all honesty James, I can't remember ... after I got called a tw@t on social media for allowing you lot to have an opinion, I kinda gave up caring.

However, didn't Lee and Ricky film themselves rather than have someone else do it? Pretty sure that changes the dynamic somewhat. I'm guessing here so could be mistaken.


I really am thinking that if Lael can make a film and win / do very well while doing it ..... that's what's upsetting people. I understand that contact with loved ones may be an advantage but If she's not receiving anything physical, then filming looks like a disadvantage to me?

[jameso]

However, didn't Lee and Ricky film themselves rather than have someone else do it? Pretty sure that changes the dynamic somewhat. I'm guessing here so could be mistaken.

I'm not wanting to go over old ground here, I don't have a problem with either - and it's too easy to sound elitist if I didn't agree. Riding together is support as much as if not more than being remotely filmed is. And as I said, racing in a bunch offers support compared to a true ITT. No more so perhaps than at night in bear country, but arguably as women it's a different situation in many areas - riding alone outside some town at 11pm may not feel comfortable. For me or you we just need to remember than idiot drivers also have guns and keep those 2 fingers on the bars

I really am thinking that if Lael can make a film and win / do very well while doing it ..... that's what's upsetting people. I understand that contact with loved ones may be an advantage but If she's not receiving anything physical, then filming looks like a disadvantage to me?

It may be just the possibility of her winning full stop? She could, and it would be so good to see. As for contact, I lost my grip a bit when I spoke to my family after that ride, it was genuinely emotional. No contact even by phone is suprisingly hard when you're that physically and mentally drained. Perhaps the biggest lesson I learned. Could also have been what kept me going at some points and stopped me calling, seeing things differently and bailing 2 days from the end so I'm not sure which way the advantage goes, it's all such a mental thing and we're all wired differently.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Riding together is support as much as if not more than being remotely filmed is. And as I said, racing in a bunch offers support compared to a true ITT.

As i said previously, perhaps no one's really that bothered unless you're a serious threat to the pointy end?

The TD has become a social media circus with modern communications. The best you can hope for (as you say) is that it's self-policing and those at the pointy end are blessed with integrity. It'll be interesting to see whether that becomes harder as more riders begin to make a living from it ... don't they say that everyone has a price?

[touch]

I really am thinking that if Lael can make a film and win / do very well while doing it ..... that's what's upsetting people. I understand that contact with loved ones may be an advantage but If she's not receiving anything physical, then filming looks like a disadvantage to me?

Even if the film crew don't help in any physical way, just knowing that there's somebody nearby who can help you out if you get into trouble is an advantage. You can take a lot more risk knowing there's a bail-out option.
You can carry less kit. Lighter sleeping bag, etc knowing that if the weather takes an unexpected turn you've got the option to get out of there, other riders are going to have to ensure they carry enough insulation to keep warm.
You can try to push through injury or illness. The type where you'd usually have to wait it out in a town to see if you're going to recover. You can try to ride it off knowing that if things do get worse, you're not going to get stuck in the wilderness with no way of getting back to civilisation.
Similar thing with restock options. If you turn up after closing time you might be able to risk pushing on with what food you have. Other riders would have to wait until opening time and ensure they carry enough.

You can ask the film crew not to help her with her race in any way - but you can't ask them not to help her if she's in serious danger so having that is surely an advantage?

[GregMay]

*cages his opinions*

I hope people enjoy the experience and don't detract from the rules more than people have been recently.

[jameso]

just knowing that there's somebody nearby who can help you out if you get into trouble is an advantage. You can take a lot more risk knowing there's a bail-out option.

I guess so, but your race would be over, ethically at least, if getting out meant taking any support from the crew .. so the stakes are as high even if the comfort risk isn't?

The point about it only being the pointy end that's cared about, probably, would be a shame if so. Someone could be racing themselves to the limit all within the rules to stay mid-pack, around a load of riders who are far less concerned about ethics or style.

[Bearbonesnorm]

The point about it only being the pointy end that's cared about, probably, would be a shame if so. Someone could be racing themselves to the limit all within the rules to stay mid-pack, around a load of riders who are far less concerned about ethics or style.

It would be a shame, you're right but everything that surrounds the TD these days will (or is) making it begin to appear so. However, by that, I don't mean that no one's bothered about the mid-pack and beyond, after all they ARE the TD. No, what I meant was those who shout, throw toys and spit dummies out would be far less bothered. I'd love to see the TD adopt the GDMB approach to communication ... no grey areas or personal interpretations then