releases in the linked articles state how much down is in either item, only the fill power. A bit like saying you've filled your car's fuel tank with 98 octane but not saying how much.

I think you'll find that PHD have never quoted the amount of grams of down in their products either

I have a s/h PHD down gilet which is very warm and very light. But when I then went to buy a new sleeping bag, they refused a direct question asking them how much down would be stuffed into the 520g bag.

polarcherry wrote:

releases in the linked articles state how much down is in either item, only the fill power. A bit like saying you've filled your car's fuel tank with 98 octane but not saying how much.

I think you'll find that PHD have never quoted the amount of grams of down in their products either

I have a s/h PHD down gilet which is very warm and very light. But when I then went to buy a new sleeping bag, they refused a direct question asking them how much down would be stuffed into the 520g bag.

Really? It’s literally in the name of most (not all) of their bags. I had a minim 300 for a while. You’ll never guess how many grams of down it had in it.

Also possible to best-guess if you use the build your own bag page.

ZeroDarkBivi wrote:Why buy outdoor gear from experienced experts like PHD, Rab, ME, etc, when you can buy it from a fashion brand and get some stripes that match your jersey?

Might take a look if they turn up in the 'archive clubhouse' (Raphy-speak for outlet store) for half-price, but for now I'll stick with companies who have been designing and manufacturing their own kit for years, rather than branding a product made for them.

Not all of their sleeping bags are named like that, esp. their race specials and half bags. Plus they don't advertise the amount of down despite the name for example you gave.

Non of their down clothing lists the amount of down, compared to a company like Rab which gives you the down weight in grams as it varies by size.

Yes, that's always one thing that's bugged me a little about PHD.

Anyway, after reading back through all the posts, I can't help but wonder whether R@pha would have expected a slightly better response to their new range, from people who you'd think would be their prime market ... but then again, we're probably not, are we?

Bearbonesnorm wrote:Yes, that's always one thing that's bugged me a little about PHD.

Anyway, after reading back through all the posts, I can't help but wonder whether R@pha would have expected a slightly better response to their new range, from people who you'd think would be their prime market ... but then again, we're probably not, are we?

Doesn't seem that negative a response to be honest, probably similar levels of dissent from the crowd they used to sell all the sky branded kit to.
It's very interesting to me how they dropped Sky and are now supported an underdog team and are going after an audience not bothered by shiny big budget road racing.

Love them or loathe them just look at how many manufacturers have aped the Brevet striped jersey.

I don't think we are the intended market, but they seem to be doing ok without our money. For the sake of balance, my R@pha Brevet bibs are the best I own by some margin. They have the nicest feeling softest material but somehow are crash proof (I crashed in mine at least 4 times on the HT550 and didn't tear them despite landing on my thigh hard enough to still have a mark there now) they are quick drying, amazingly comfy (wore them for 31 hours on the BB300 with no issues) and also have a cut which allows you to answer the call of nature easily without having to take the straps off your shoulders. Either they were very lucky or the designer new what he was doing. I also have bibs by Altura, Endura, DHB, Red White and Loffler and none are a match for the Brevet.

People love to slag off R@pha as all marketing but clearly they haven't ridden 24 hrs+ in their bibs, I have, loads of times and I wouldn't swap them for anything else.

Jones Loops in carbon are £370 and people don't say "I'd prefer 37 pairs of £10 no name bars from CRC" when they see a pair? Perhaps it's because of their previous association with Sky or the perceived customer base that generates such bad feeling?

Doesn't seem that negative a response to be honest

Doesn't seem that positive either.

I don't think we are the intended market

It's 'bikepacking' kit - if we're not, who is? (I don't require an answer to this).

they seem to be doing ok without our money.

My money - they've already got yours

Jones Loops in carbon are £370 and people don't say "I'd prefer 37 pairs of £10 no name bars from CRC"

No but in fairness, I do say "f*ck that!!! £370 for bars, that's just obscene" ... which is kind of the same thing

Bearbonesnorm wrote:

they seem to be doing ok without our money.

My money - they've already got yours

They don't have that much of it, I paid less for my bibs than my ali Jones bars Currently saving up for the carbon ones... For that kind of money I could get a weeks holiday at a resort in the sun which would be full of English people all eating fish and chips and moaning about all the foreigners and how the locals don't speak English, I know what I'd rather spend my money on

For clarity I'm not talking about a week in Wales I would pay that money for a week in Wales, and have in the past

Jones Loops in carbon are £370 and people don't say "I'd prefer 37 pairs of £10 no name bars from CRC

as with the raphe bibs. some things are just a blatant rip off, but if you are happy with that, fine. I am not.

Well, Crikey, how much sent me the jacket/sleeping bag to test (it was me wot wrote the first article linked to). It arrived not long before Crikey, how much announced the release, so I didn't get any chance for real world testing before we released the news story.

Obviously the full review will be more in depth - and based on my actual experiences, rather than what Crikey, how much has told us and trying things on at home. Initial observations are that it is very well made - as you'd expect for what is a high price.

It's an interesting position to be in - as a consumer, I'd probably be (and already have in the past) looking at PHD, Rab etc for my own lightweight sleeping bag. On the other hand, I've been lucky enough to test quite a few bits of Crikey, how much clothing over the years, and while I'm not sure I could ever financially justify buying them on my salary, they've always performed superbly.

I'm testing it with as open a mind as possible, and we'll see how things go. First up is the OMM this weekend (no bike!) - forecast looks like the evening will be pretty chilly in the Black Mountains this weekend. I'll be bringing thermals and sharing a tent as well, so *should* be warm enough. Either way, it will be significantly better than my first mountain marathon sleeping bag, and my mat will be better than the bubble wrap I used to use

I'll report back once I've tested the bag and put up a review

Be interesting to see what you make of it Tom. OMM in Oct should certainly represent a valid test

But the $64 questions...will it help Boners get across the raging torrent at Aberhosen? Will it help Sweary Dave dry out from his aquatic funland jaunt? And will it prevent me from DNFing? If all it will do is make me look ace whilst stil fecking things up, it's probably not for me. :)

Greetz

S.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:Be interesting to see what you make of it Tom. OMM in Oct should certainly represent a valid test

Good luck Tom.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:Be interesting to see what you make of it Tom. OMM in Oct should certainly represent a valid test

Take a vest too

And a Brevet hot water bottle https://www.heat-treats.co.uk/s-r-pink- ... er-bottle/

johnnystorm wrote: It's very interesting to me how they dropped Sky and are now supported an underdog team and are going after an audience not bothered by shiny big budget road racing.

I heard that Sky ditched Crikey, how much after they supplied 300 tubs of beard wax instead of chamois cream...

To be clear, I regularly visit the local 'clubhouse', mostly out of curiosity at what ridiculous garments they'll have in for the urban dude; I can assure you it is a fashion boutique with a cycling theme. That said, I have bought quite a few garments (at considerable discount, obviously), always driven by aesthetic priorities - colours match the new bike, etc... I am a complete tart sometimes! And mostly they are not bad, in much the same way that mid-priced clothing from Gore, Mavic, DHB, Endura and Aldi is OK. But technically, just not in the same ballpark as Assos.

But going back to the point of my last post; why would you but this pretty new bivi gear when, for the same price, you can get some excellent quality, proven gear from good suppliers (many UK based, if that matters to you), with extensive experience in developing this stuff? The only reason I can think of is the power of Brand association.

pistonbroke wrote:And a Brevet hot water bottle https://www.heat-treats.co.uk/s-r-pink- ... er-bottle/

Gutted they don't do an Orange one to match the Open...!

Speaking of the brand association above, there will always be a market for this type of gear, i used to live in Surrey and would watch new roadies throwing down their golf-bats on mass and doing laps of Richmond Park in their uniform of Crikey, how much and Pinarello bikes and it put me off, that along with their marketing wording where the chamois creme, contains "herbs handpicked from the slopes of ventoux and rolled on the thighs of cycling virgins" or some such drivel.

But the constantly appearing on Sports Pursuit, being discounted at 50% on Wiggle currently and being owned by Wal-Mart must dent their "Premium" image? It took me ages to colour in pink stripes on my Apidura gear to be cool too...

ScotRoutes wrote:Ah yes. I prefer synthetic for that application and there are quite a few options with reflectives.

Same here. Any favourite insulated garment with reflective elements? Mine are those I use for other outdoor activities and are mostly focused on mountaineering/skitouring/hiking - so, unfortunately no reflectives.

ZeroDarkBivi wrote:Why buy outdoor gear from experienced experts like PHD, Rab, ME, etc, when you can buy it from a fashion brand and get some stripes that match your jersey?

Good question.

But then why would I bother to sew my own quilts when I don't enjoy sewing and have no experience in manufacturing I have to ask myself.
The warmer down quilt I made myself is one of the most performing sleeping systems I have. I have a few (8) and some are custom made by experts, but they don't come close. It's highly specific and has a baffle system no manufacturer would dare to use, but it works superbly for me.

Perhaps some folks are looking for specific properties, rather than who's been there longest. This bag of Ralphi is much more specific than what most established manufacturers offer and will hit the sweet spot of many bikepackers I'm sure. Also Ralphi averse folks.

This must be the main reason why we were having this discussion.

Alpinum wrote:

ScotRoutes wrote:Ah yes. I prefer synthetic for that application and there are quite a few options with reflectives.

Same here. Any favourite insulated garment with reflective elements? Mine are those I use for other outdoor activities and are mostly focused on mountaineering/skitouring/hiking - so, unfortunately no reflectives.

Montane Prism jacket has reflective patches on the shoulder-blade area but I've just bought an Endura Flipjack Jacket that outdoes it.

I've had various Goretex waterproofs with small reflective patches too. Not as much as I'd maybe like though.

Any favourite insulated garment with reflective elements? Mine are those I use for other outdoor activities and are mostly focused on mountaineering/skitouring/hiking - so, unfortunately no reflectives.

I just stick a few stripes or patches of reflective fabric on the Montane or Decathlon gilets/jackets. Agreed, Endura stuff's pretty good and includes RF detail.

The only reason I can think of is the power of Brand association.

That, and the fact their kit is generally very good. VFM? All in all not as bad as some would suggest. Brand association works though, people buy into images/what others have/etc, see Red Bull, Coca-Cola, BMW etc. It's just rarely seen or done well in the bike industry, at least not at the level Crikey, how much got it to. tbh I admire the company for that even if the kit isn't really my thing.

tbh I admire the company for that even if the kit isn't really my thing.

Contrary to how it sometimes appears, me too. My bemusement is largely directed towards their loyal customers, rather than the company, who actually do a fantastic job in flogging an asprational lifestyle dream

I have one of their brevet insulated gilets (have 3 non insulated ones) for use this winter. The one i used last winter is a Primaloft gilet with fill in the front only but it had no reflective bits or high vis, the brevet range is very good for that

I have a few of their bits now and I rate all of them

Hi Ben, ref a previous natter that we've had, all the talk above now makes me feel super-inadequate clad as I always am in my twin North Face fleeces (no matter what the weather is!) .

Your fleeces are vaguely exciting Reg, please don’t change

Besides, they give you somewhere to tuck your map and pockets to cram full of treasures!