Interesting discussion this, I'm going to give bivi bag only a go at the YD300 on the basis that if it all goes horribly wrong I'm only out for one night. I did this on the Capital trail last year but couldn't resist taking a stove and having a cuppa and breakfast before getting going...

JohnClimber wrote: Sad I know, sorry

Not at all John, this is the first step to going faster. Realising that you can be faster at mundane things.

Think of all the other places you can save time, be efficient and so on.

Also riding lots and being fast helps :)

You've even got me at it... 30 mins from waking up to pedaling this morning. That included squeezing into my bibtights

Speed/efficiency isn't just for racing - it makes a difference when it's raining or the midge are about

ScotRoutes wrote: it makes a difference when it's raining or the midge are about

That's exactly my thought process.

Its not about being faster or rushing around, its just about everything having its place, being in order, and having a routine. That way when something goes wrong or the weather turns on a dime you're ready to deal with it without spending ages digging through drybags. Or worse, packing....doesnt fit...unpack, repack...nope, er...push....rip!

I have genuine respect for the "race" fraternity within these walls - some amazing feats of endurance etc. At the same time, may I make a small voice heard from the "layabout" wing of the house?

I'm not at all bothered how long it takes me to get on the road, sorry track, again after a kip. I come at it from the angle of an hour dozing in my bag is time well spent, not wasted at all. I can gradually resurface to the tune of birdies tweeting, the dappled sunshine on my tarp (or the dappled rainstorm on my tarp if west of Shrewsbury), a sneaky view and so on. My bag's too cozy to rush out of, so maybe I'll lean over and crank the stove up for a leisurely brew. While I'm waiting I'll review yesterday, and contemplate at which pub/caff I might while away a couple of hours today. I might even lie there and think about nothing at all, which in my book is a luxury in today's stressy culture.

Obviously it's nice to bung things back on the bike in some sort of helpful order for unpacking but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it (specially since I only get 9 or 10 hours of that anyway).

"A two-wheeled tramp" is about right. The bikepacking equivalent of a flaneur, mooching, loafing, watching, seeing what happens. I really must invest in a pet tortoise to tag along behind the bike. For example some of the best moments of recent WRT occurred when we just allowed a bit of time for "stuff to happen to us".

Not convinced? Have a read of "Idle Thoughts Of An Idle Fellow" by JK Jerome. Or possibly "How To Be Idle" by Hodgkinson. Your blood pressure will thank you.

"Reg"

I see both sides. At times there is a need to hurry things along but at other times, a second or third brew won't do any harm.

Perhaps it's a little strange that the two worlds can coexist peacefully within the same person and the situation will dictate which one comes to the fore - it's a lovely thing. Sometimes, I ride to camp and sometimes I camp to ride ... no right, no wrong, 'tis all smashing

Depends on what you're after though. Or your aims for a set ride.

If you're out to have tea in the countryside - sure, I'd adopt that.
But if I'm out to get from A-B via a long way, I'm not going to waste time that I could spend riding, or eating on the road, or getting to a pub even further away.

Depends on what you're after though. Or your aims for a set ride.

That's exactly it ...

Sometimes, I ride to camp and sometimes I camp to ride ... no right, no wrong, 'tis all smashing

It's not a black and white issue really, circumstances will dictate what you do. In "race mode" you might wake up and it's raining but you see that in twenty minutes the shower will pass over you so you can wait till then to avoid getting your kit wet for the following night. In "lounge lizard mode" you might hurry things along if you see rain heading your way.

Knowing how to pack/unpack quickly and efficiently is not a wasted skill, it's just another tool in your toolkit to use as and when you see fit.

"tis all smashing"

Yep, it most certainly is, hence my respect for all the different camps within our camp.

No doubt you'll have already spotted my tongue partly in cheek, but I felt the balance had tipped a little far into the "decamping needs speed and efficiency" realms. Always nice to have a bit of balance. Otherwise you'd fall off.

Now, must dash, got a train to catch and I haven't packed my lunch yet ;-)

"Reg".

Also depends if solo or in a group.

I'll straight away admit to being the person who won't ride with people who faff a lot - you know, the people who turn up with a half built bike that'll "only take a few mins while I install the new headset" before the ride we've arranged to go on a month ago. You get to do that once. Then if you do something similar again, I'll probably decline to ride with you. It stems from the way I have a problem where by I don't want to be the person holding up a group - thus I tend to be fast at getting ready to leave. I assume everyone has this. They do not.

I've also tended to notice this often ends up in me waiting. And shivering. And bored. While you lot take your time.Thus, I now tend to .... gauge the group speed of this sort of thing before I start out on a ride, take more clothes, and mellow out a bit. Sometimes.

I suppose I can be a bit contradicting on some trips, as sometimes I'm up, packed, and set off in under 10 mins with no breakfast and plenty miles ahead, only to them spend 2 hours doing absolutely nothing sitting under a tree by a river just enjoying...being there.

Things get even worse when you put a hammock in my hands. Setup in 90 seconds only to lose 4 hours of the day laying weightless bliss.

I guess I save time I some areas to spend more time enjoying the outdoors, maybe if I tarp camped it would be different as I can never wait to get out the tent and into the air in the morning to see the views

I'll straight away admit to being the person who won't ride with people who faff a lot - you know, the people who turn up with a half built bike that'll "only take a few mins while I install the new headset" before the ride we've arranged to go on a month ago. You get to do that once. Then if you do something similar again, I'll probably decline to ride with you. It stems from the way I have a problem where by I don't want to be the person holding up a group - thus I tend to be fast at getting ready to leave. I assume everyone has this. They do not.

I've also tended to notice this often ends up in me waiting. And shivering. And bored. While you lot take your time.Thus, I now tend to .... gauge the group speed of this sort of thing before I start out on a ride, take more clothes, and mellow out a bit. Sometimes.

I too, dislike (so avoid) being the last person to get up and get packed but I don't generally get stressed with those who are. I enjoy getting up first when everything's still and collecting my thoughts. Often, I'll just make a brew, pull my childs bear hat on and sit quietly watching the world unfold ... I wonder whether the hat might actually be the key to my inner calm?

For my tuppence worth, I'm going to sit a with a foot in each camp. I'm very much with RIP above in the removal of the sense of urgency and having time to let things happen, but also with pretty much everybody else with a some sense of urgency.
My day to day work involves deadlines, routines and all the other stuff that goes with it, some aspects more flexible than others. I daresay that pretty much everybody else here is in the same boat. By the time the weekend arrives I've had enough of these things and I want a different pace to my life. Took me a long time to realise that having spent most of my life competing in one form or another I was just replacing one set of deadlines with another.
I don't race anymore. I do sometimes have deadlines (maybe a ferry to catch); it's rarely a major issue to take it a bit easier and catch the next one.
I would very much agree that being able to set up or decamp quickly and efficiently is a good thing and shows familiarity and knowledge.When I'm out bikepacking/touring/call it what you will, I like the way that I can choose my own routine. If I want to rest for an extra half hour then I shall. Once I'm up and about though, the process of packing my stuff away and storing it on the bike (and the time it takes) doesn't change much whether I'm in a hurry or not. The same stuff has to go into the same space. I may choose to just sit and listen or look at things going on around me. Maybe have a brew or a snack, look at the map. The pub/cafe/summit will still be there when I get there. Yes, it might be shut, but it could also be shut if I'd rushed my knackers off and got there too early. That just moves the sitting around from the start of the ride to the end.

Who would have thought that such a simple task could provoke so many posts. Still, I am enjoying reading them all .

Had a quick go at it... yeah, still "sub standard".

This is going to take some time to get right.

Also depends if solo or in a group.

I'll straight away admit to being the person who won't ride with people who faff a lot - you know, the people who turn up with a half built bike that'll "only take a few mins while I install the new headset" before the ride we've arranged to go on a month ago. You get to do that once. Then if you do something similar again, I'll probably decline to ride with you.

I can very much see that point of view as well. Turning up for a ride with a half built bike isn't what I'd class as faffing though, it's poor preparation and to an extent a lack of respect for the others in the group.

Perhaps it's a little strange that the two worlds can coexist peacefully within the same person and the situation will dictate which one comes to the fore - it's a lovely thing. Sometimes, I ride to camp and sometimes I camp to ride ... no right, no wrong, 'tis all smashing

That says it better than I can, I like that.

I went for a last minute little trip on Friday night in the Clwydians.

didn't go far and it was very much a relaxed trip, I timed myself in the morning; out of bivi at 6:30am and set off again at 8am.

that might annoy the hell out of some people but it was such a lovely day I didn't want to rush, the farmer even stopped for a chat on his way to feed the lambs. Wasn't bothered about us being there and just requested that we don't leave anything behind... one of those "everything fell into place" trips!

'The Rules of Faff'

1) Don't be a Faffer
2) The rider calling a need to stop for a reason that isn't good opportunity ie food, or pre-agreed, is the Faffer. Reasons that are considered Faff can be debated.
3) Whilst one rider is Faffing, another may make adjustments taking the same or less time without racking up Faffery rep.
4) If the opportunist adjuster takes longer to sort his sh1t out than the Faffer, the oportunist becomes the Faffer and the original Faffer is partially vindicated and Faff-scorn is deflected.
5) A rider with high Faffery rep is in trouble of a type usually determined by riding company.
6) Adjustments made while no-one notices or while riding are positive Faff and show a certain skill or understanding of being in a group where that rider already has dangerously high Faff rep.

I enjoy getting up first when everything's still and collecting my thoughts. Often, I'll just make a brew, pull my childs bear hat on and sit quietly watching the world unfold ...

Something I often do when riding solo but it took a couple of rides with a morning faffer -actually faff isn't at all fair, just a relaxed-pace traveller- to learn to relax internally and not see it as wasted time. Good to learn from others, indirectly in that case.

I'm just faffing about here of course, but:

Oxford Dictionary defines "faffing" as "spending time in ineffectual activity". It then defines "ineffectual" as "not producing any significant or desired effect". Lastly, "significant" is "worthy of attention".

Most of my faffing time seems to be spent on things that later turn out to be have definitely been worthy of attention, but at the point-of-faff they didn't seem to have been. Like that time I double-checked I had a chaintool. So maybe I'm not faffing after all.

"Reg"

Not entirely relevant to the decamping thing, but not worthy of its own thread, I had a little routine I did on the HT that I had a little acronym for, to check off I'd done everything when I stopped:

L.E.O.P.A.R.D

Layers
Eat
Oil (lube chain)
Pee
Adjustments (bike, kit etc)
Route (check map for what's coming up)
Drink

Not all needed doing each time, but it was good to have a little checklist to make sure I hadn't missed anything

Don't you mean a nmm, nmmm, nmnm, acronym?

whitestone wrote:Don't you mean a nmm, nmmm, nmnm, acronym?

You've lost me, sorry

Ian wrote:

whitestone wrote:Don't you mean a nmm, nmmm, nmnm, acronym?

You've lost me, sorry

mnemonic?