Good to hear you're OK Karl. Big balls for taking it on!

Si

Will we see the first UK finishers today/tonight.

Looks like they are cycling together.

Looks like we might Pete and Bas have less than 100km to go

fatbikerbill wrote:Will we see the first UK finishers today/tonight.

Looks like they are cycling together.

They need to be careful, there was a Facebook chat about how two guys (2nd/3rd or 3rd/4th as I recall) were given finishing times but won't be listed in their finishing positions as they rode together and were warned by the organisers that if they continued to do so they risked being disqualified.

We're they riding together or were they drafting? Which is the key difference isn't it between a solo ride and assisted.

I 'rode' with Bas for sections of the HT550, but we were riding next to each other on the double-track and chatting about all sorts of rubbish - as you do, but only for a few minutes at a time. I was impressed he spoke 4 languages, he said he was more impressed I made my own frame bag/luggage but I think the 4 languages wins

But we didn't help each other in any way, I never offered him any of my sweets etc. which always seems a bit mean at the time when I was eating them but if I did it's outside assistance. Then one of us would get ahead and you'd not see the other one for hours, usually not until the next cafe/shop. This was the same for many riders I met and we'd leapfrog each other during the day depending upon who stopped where and what the terrain was like. This for me was one of the great things about these events, getting to meet and talk to like minded people, many from around the world.

The yo-yoing in and out of touch with other riders is part of the charm of these events. On last year's HT550 I was riding at around the same pace as Phil (htrider) and Pete McNeil amongst others but like you say, we'd be riding side by side rather than drafting. I did ride "with" Jenny Graham from Fort Augustus to the finish but again we were independent. I had to go against a lifetime's habit of offering to help people when she was struggling to lift her bike over that gate under the railway about 1Km from the end but I know she'd have refused even if I had.

It's not black and white though is it: holding a gate open for a rider coming up behind you? Picking up sunglasses or other kit and handing them back to their owner? I suppose those might be classed as "serendipity" simple chance and timing as you aren't deliberately relying on other riders for assistance.

Of course riding in a pair or group is mentally a lot different to riding alone, we all have different strengths as weaknesses so if you get a bit down then company can help keep you going whereas on your own you've just got to work it out yourself.

whitestone wrote:Of course riding in a pair or group is mentally a lot different to riding alone, we all have different strengths as weaknesses so if you get a bit down then company can help keep you going whereas on your own you've just got to work it out yourself.

It is, but I would expect no encouragement or assistance from another rider and I wouldn't offer any unless it was a serious medical emergency. When I came across Mike with his cut foot that wouldn't stop bleeding I looked through my first aid kit to see if I had anything which would help, but due to the location of the cut I didn't. We rode on together until the next road and he then had to decide what to do. I said I couldn't offer advice either way. If I had said to try and keep going and then it got worse and he couldn't ride/walk he'd of been in trouble, the next section was Fisherfield. Equally I wouldn't want to tell him to scratch as if it stopped hurting and was then ok after a couple of hours he should have rode on?

It can be difficult not to end up riding with people if they are the same pace as you. On the 2017 B150 I rode a fair section with Rob McIntyre, we're about the same build and fitness, less than a year between our ages and both on singlespeeds with identical gearing. There was no way either of us could of dropped the other on even if we'd tried. Both of us were going as fast as we could manage which meant that we were usually within a few hundred metres of each other. And although we became friends due to this shared experience I know that neither of us would of assisted the other or offered more support than a shouted 'you ok?' hopefully followed by a 'yes' before riding on alone and leaving the other to sort out whatever issue had caused them to stop.

Sean, to me medical matters trump all race/event rules but what the "patient" decides to do once you've helped sort themselves out is up to them unless they are in a state where it would be dangerous for them to continue.

whitestone wrote:Sean, to me medical matters trump all race/event rules but what the "patient" decides to do once you've helped sort themselves out is up to them unless they are in a state where it would be dangerous for them to continue.

This exactly.

As for the dq's at the Silk Road, a look on FB seems to have divided opinion. It does say the two riders were warned beforehand so perhaps there is more to it. Of course someone has also mentioned the pic of Jay P with the local helping to push his bike up the hill....

Does the presence of the course cars also provide a mental crutch? You know that if your dot doesn't move for long enough that someone will come looking for you?

sean_iow wrote:
Does the presence of the course cars also provide a mental crutch? You know that if your dot doesn't move for long enough that someone will come looking for you?

Isn't this true of any event using a live tracking system?

ScotRoutes wrote:Isn't this true of any event using a live tracking system?

Maybe, I wouldn't have expected anyone to come and look for me on the HT550 although my wife would have tried to contact me if my dot hadn't moved for a very long time but if she couldn't get hold of me I don't know what would of happened next. My phone was on airlplane mode so I was out of contact for nearly the whole event. Unless you are at the very back of the field, provided you were on the route then another racer would pass you eventually. In a real emergency (life or death) you use the SOS on the SPOT if you were able to.

I think what I was trying to say is, the fact the you know there are 2 cars driving up and down the roads you are riding on means that help/rescue would seem to be closer to hand so you could take more chances when pushing on into bad weather?

Yeah - it's that latter aspect that I'm referring to. Just knowing someone can follow your track could affect the decisions you make and those might be to increase the level of risk you are willing to take.

ScotRoutes wrote:Yeah - it's that latter aspect that I'm referring to. Just knowing someone can follow your track could affect the decisions you make and those might be to increase the level of risk you are willing to take.

I think this is a big factor, and it seems that this event has been tough and maybe couldn't have been run, certainly as (what appears to be) a commercial event without support vehicles and 'bought in' check points. There's something that doesn't sit right with me about it. It looks like an incredible place to visit and ride bikes but it really doesn't appeal at all as a race.

Also in terms of external support I noticed that Lael had Rue 'following' her along the French Divide. It resulted in some ace photo journalism but even without any actual support having personal media meeting you at various points on an ITT rules the ride out as an ITT.

Maybe this should be in the 'are we falling out of love with racing' thread...

Two interesting things for me.

1. The silk rule change that only the receiver is DQd if one person helps another.

2. Interesting what someone said above about riding with someone else is a mental aid. I hadn't thought of that before.

Both could be abused I guess but in the end for me it's just about getting out there. I'm more than happy to accept a mental crutch.

I find some of these rules a bit tedious to be honest. I'm much more of a fan of the "don't take the piss" style of rule making.

You get less strict rulesets in some professional competitions!

ianfitz wrote: It looks like an incredible place to visit and ride bikes...

As long as you have a strong stomach perhaps? I think I read that 1/3 of the competitors have suffered with stomach issues/food poisoning? The altitude may not be helping with this.

Chapeau to anyone who finishes, of for that matter, anyone who took it on. Reading the competitor info with advice about rabies jabs and altitude acclimatisation has scared me enough. Makes midges seem a minor concern

Richard G wrote:I find some of these rules a bit tedious to be honest. I'm much more of a fan of the "don't take the piss" style of rule making.

You get less strict rulesets in some professional competitions!

The best "rule" I've come across was on the Rovaniemi 150 when the organiser was going through the various risks and dangers:

"If you are eaten by wolves you will be disqualified!"

Seems a bit harsh, since part of you at least might finish the route

Still loving the photos and podcasts.

Seems they've had some pretty rough snow storms and an awful lot of HAB, someone mentions on the latest podcast that the next length has 20km section of HAB

There's a good few of photos of people pushing on what look like reasonable tracks (surface and gradient) just wondering if some of that is just the altitude and general fatigue? Plenty of photos where its more than obvious how tough it is!

It'll be great to hear more from Karl when he's back. Some trip!

Yeah, it'll be the altitude. At 14,000 feet / 4,000 meters I ended up pushing on what I'd normally describe as a flat... and that wasn't with a bike laden with enough stuff to get me through 10 days of riding!

I've never even been close to that height so I've no idea how I'd get on or if I'd even get altitude sickness.

Moder-dye wrote:I've never even been close to that height so I've no idea how I'd get on or if I'd even get altitude sickness.

Altitude affects individuals very differently: some people have virtually no problems, others can get AMS even if they've been to altitude before on a regular basis. Similarly with acclimatisation: takes about one-two weeks for most people to get to a point where "normal" activities aren't debilitating, full acclimatisation takes much longer, but some people never properly acclimatise. Usually it's the rate of ascent to altitude that's the problem and the longer you take over this the better, too quick and it's guaranteed that everyone accustomed to low altitudes will get AMS. This is why trekking routes in the Himalaya "climb high, sleep low", you stress the body with a bit of altitude then drop back to let the acclimatisation happen a bit quicker in a less stressful environment, a bit like training if you will.

Until you do go to altitude then there's no way of knowing how it will affect you.

As above, not ridden out there, but ridden in Boliva and Peru at altitudes of up to 4800m and if you're hiking you can take 10 steps and stop, but on a bike you can't really do 10 pedal strokes and stop and get off, back on and repeat, so you often just end up pushing the bike.

There's a lift up to 3800m here and at the top there's some steps up to a viewing platform.

Only about 50 steps but last time I was there I stopped twice to catch my breath.

Admittedly I'd just arrived straight from 1000m (in minutes) but still, gives some sense of how much difference it makes