I see Nigel is about 640km or so and Shona + Rich are 675km into the race

Don't forget Andy Lawrence (Chicken Legs) who's at km 850 so less than 300km to go. Excellent ride for a 50 something.

That 9 minutes James went over 4 days by means he'll have to be back next year........

Go Andy

And is it just me that wants to completely rewrite that mapping site.

And is it just me that wants to completely rewrite that mapping site.

No, it's not just you Dave. I want you to rewrite it too ... it's horrible.

+2

+ 1M

I like it, but it does need more green

Dave Barter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:48 pm And is it just me that wants to completely rewrite that mapping site.

It has me stumped looking at it on a mobile, I can't seem to work out how to see how far they are on the table as there's a button missing?

I miss the time/distance graph that trackleaders gives you
From that you can see stoppage time better and see who's going faster etc

I'd love to pump all that data through our system at work and visualise it properly. Shame the dataset is most likely a few magnitudes too small.

Looks like Andy could be finished sometime today perhaps?

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:34 am Looks like Andy could be finished sometime today perhaps?

Looks like he's got 150 ish km to go? So might make it to the finish today, fingers crossed

BobCatMax wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:35 pm James H mentioned in Nelson's live insta feed of him finishing that he'd had too much caffeine after getting told off by his wife for swearing too much..

I assume you're talking about something a little harder..?

Yeah, caffeine just as much as any "harder" drug. It's always (just) a question of how much.
Micro dosed acid works very different compared to regular dosing for a psychedelic trip. Same with caffeine.
During an all-nighter after 5 days of biking with rather little sleep I pushed/rode my bike in a drowsy state up a part of the WHW and realised that I was lightly hallucinating and rather pathic. Two WinForce shots with each 160 mg caffeine and I entered a different world. Even my mood lightened, I had the sensation my body would put me through when riding a downhill, when all the lights (in the brain, not the torches) are switched back on.
Caffeine can be bought as pills. The ones I know contain 200 mg. It's dead easy to get hands on, socially accepted etc. and dead easy to put yourself through a crazy trip if dosed accordingly. I never tried it, I likely will never feel the need to do so, but what happens at 600 mg caffeine for a 80 kg person? Or 1 g even?

Thinking about the AMR:

Red Bull:
Salut Sofiane. Nous aimerions te supporter.
Sofiane:
Je peux voler sans leur soutiens.


Having used caffeine with amazing effects and seen what cocaine, ephederine, amphetamines, methamphetamines and speed did/do with my friends who still regularly visit/organise goa parties, I wonder if he gets some help too.
They go on dancing, chatting, eating, drinking and having fun with no sleep from Friday morning to Sunday afternoon/evening. After a long sleep and mostly regular work under the week, they then repeat that. Some used to repeat it week for week. I'd come back home from strenuous mountaineering trips Fri-Sun on little sleep and be tired and smoke charas with my roommates who came back from such parties, seemingly feeling tired in a similar way, obviously for other reasons. Up to that point they had been awake for about 58 hours, organising a party, dancing, cleaning up etc.

Extreme alpinism taken to the himalayas is quite drug heavy - I know it first hand from such alpinists. From sleep pills to calm the nerves at BC to stimulative psychoactive drugs (not just, but also caffeine). And then there's the whole mess with Diamox (Acetazolamide) and dexamethasone.
The studies done at triathlons show staggering abuse of drugs (mostly painkillers and NSAIDs).
Blogs about mixing high dosed painkillers with NSAIDS during wilderness races like the AMWC indicate drug use even in grassroots events.
I used caffeine towards the end of HT550 (2016) and Seretide (Fluticason-propionate and Salmeterole - similar to what Froome used and just about every single road pro/mtb pro uses, because they, like I, all suffer from some sort of Asthma ) and felt how it improved both my mental and physical situation. During my first HT (2013) I got a sore knee climbing out of Ft. Bill and took 75 mg Voltaren (3 x 25 mg, it's an NSAID) on the last leg.
Lee Craigie had to scratch during the TD due to an allergic reaction against drugs (NSAIDs like Ibuprofen, called Vitamin I in the US, naproxen and Aspirin are on top of the list of drugs causing such reactions), Lael Wilcox seemed to have shown similar symptoms during her (first?) TD a few years back (I might be wrong on this) and openly admits/shows, how important caffeine is to her. Why did Josh Kato collapse the way he did? Was he on drugs? Our bodies don't like what some of them/us do. Kidneys and liver are stressed already just by the nature of riding long days back to back on little sleep. Give them drugs and the stress may reach levels causing much larger problems than just a rash.

I'm sure everyone on here who took part during a bikepacking event with some sort of a focus on time and speed will have stories about meds and loads of coffee. Own stories or such about the other gal/guy continuing their ride with 1.5 L of coffee after a stop at the petrol station. Quite normal, no?
Pro roadies... well... the medical attention they get is staggering. Froome and Salbutamol as one of many, many examples. You can actually abuse this drug heavily and still not scratch at the urine levels by regulations. Where are the blood tests? So much is wrong in that "sport".
Bikepacking thankfully is free of such and this means we can ride as stoned as we want.

I stated above:
I wonder if he gets some help too.
To be honest, I was lying. I don't wonder if he gets some help.

There are no regulations, so no one has a reason to bother about being open about any drug use.
Would be interesting to see what he uses.

On the pros crossing over in to gravel/bikepacking/ adventure racing, i think there is going to be a large crossover the next few years, Ian Boswell has left the World Tour to take up gravel races this year, and on the flip side, Colin Strickland who won Dirty Kanza was offered a World Tour place with EF Education, but he would of started on bottom rung, and said that as a gravel racer his individual sponsorships paid far more than the salary he would of got from EF Education.

Ian Boswell backed it up saying that he already has Wahoo and others as sponsors and will be earning more that way than racing road.

The UK based The Cycling Podcast who previously have all been about road racing, now are going to do a monthly "Explore" issue and Ian Boswell is going to be doing it with the podcast about the gravel racing and bikepacking scene.

Connor Dunne and Larry Warbass (?) were seen on Torino-Nice a couple of years ago when they were riding their #nogotour and trying bikepacking for first time, they were clearly having a brilliant time and got more social media exposure from that having lost their World Tour team, than they got at any time racing.

Pro roadies... well... the medical attention they get is staggering. Froome and Salbutamol as one of many, many examples. You can actually abuse this drug heavily and still not scratch at the urine levels by regulations. Where are the blood tests? So much is wrong in that "sport".

I think 50% of the peloton have stress induced asthma so no need to signal him out. This is an unlikely high number when compared to the normal population. I thought they could have 6 uses of an inhaler in 12 hours and 12 in 24 as I am not asthmatic is have no idea if this constitutes abuse or not.
Either way they are all dancing along the edge or using only the "fair" substances [pain killers caffeine etc. supplements shakes protein drinks etc.]That give a performance advantage and not the unfair advantage PED and EPO etc.

As for the rest they do biological passports so they do blood test and it’s odd you criticise a sport with regulations and tests. Considerable efforts have gone into making pro cycling clean again - i very much doubt any other sport goes to the lengths they do

IMHO it’s a certainty people are using drugs to do these [though I don’t know who] - whether these are legal and or acceptable [caffeine] or illegal and cheating I doubt we will ever know for sure as I doubt anyone will do a full disclosure

In reply to Alpinum above - obviously i do hope that there is nothing stronger than caffeine and ibuprofen involved, some people can survive on less sleep than others. I'm an ex-squaddie and have gone 4 days with less than 4-5 hours sleep, it's not good for you and is a lot easier when young, now i am lucky if i see 10pm without sleeping on sofa.

Individuals have very difference tolerances for not sleeping, in the same way caffeine tolerance is can vary greatly. You can train yourself to function with little sleep, there was a ultra-racer a while back that would literally take "micro-naps" on the bike, legs either side still stood upright, head on front bag, and take 20-30 seconds.

in 2016 i did a daft 500km Newcastle to London in a day ride and a lad riding in the middle of our group. just veered off straight into kerb, as he had fallen asleep on bike, thankfully he didn't do himself much damage, but it certainly woke everyone else up.

The other thing is adrenaline, how many times have you had a close call with a car on road, or off road and the spike in adrenaline after meant you rode with a clearer head and faster legs.??

In hindsight I made a awful decision on riding a gravel bike with 50mm tires. This route absolutely dictates a true mountain bike size tyre as the 2 riders ahead of me had.

- Jay P.

I did wonder.

The number of gravel bikes at the event is a triumph of marketing (or fashion) over common sense

6 uses of an inhaler in 12 hours and 12 in 24 is very much overuse,
I've been asthmatic for 31 years and not used that much when I've been
Hospitalised (once) with a severe attack. Taking that much so close
Together would make you a bit giddy and raring to go....and possibly
Manic !

Quick opinion question:

Where is the ethical line between (legal, over-the-counter) self-medication that's acceptable and that which isn't???

Arguably, if I enter an event and choose to dose myself up on NSAID's, caffeine tablets and asthma medication then I'm committing no crime nor would I be gaining an unattainable advantage over any other competitor as they're free to do the same and so what's the problem???

[For the record: I'm asking hypothetically, playing devils advocate, not stating my actual opinion]

I take ibuprofen on every bikepacking trip, pro-plus tablets every time I'm planning on riding through the night (I don't drink tea or coffee so caffeine affects me quite strongly) and if my back is feeling iffy prior to a trip I might carry stronger NSAID's in case of a flare-up.

(None of the above are taken regularly but instead only if needed)

Am I 'cheating'?

Would it be considered any less acceptable if I was mixing things up at the pointy end of any given event?

What do we think???

Personally, I don't see any issue with things like caffeine or over the counter pain killers, although I'm sure neither will do you much good when injested in large amounts. Inhaler is a tricky one though, I'm assuming they're only really available on perscription? If so, that means that the person taking it likely has cause / need to but you can't police how often they decide to take it. Would I start using one in the hope that it would make me faster - no. If you do then you're a dick.

As an aside, I think we'll see quite a change within group starts / races over the next 5 years. I'm hoping it will simply mean an unofficial two-tier system developing rather than anything that prevents the common man or woman from taking part.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:43 pm.....Inhaler is a tricky one though, I'm assuming they're only really available on perscription? If so, that means that the person taking it likely has cause / need to but you can't police how often they decide to take it. Would I start using one in the hope that it would make me faster - no. If you do then you're a dick

Ah, I didn't realise it was prescription only - solves that one then

There's often differences between availability and composition of "over the counter" medicines country to country. I suffer from cold sores for which the usual remedy in the UK is Zovirax. In Canada Zovirax is only available via a doctor's prescription (at least it was).

There was also the case of a UK snowboarder who failed a drugs test at the winter Olympics (whichever one was last held in the USA) because the inhaler he picked up in the States had an extra "ingredient" that was on WADA's banned list and he didn't realise.

Allied to that is the difference in cultural attitude to medicines and drugs. We went on a mountain biking trip to Peru, about half the group were European with the remainder being American. The Yanks would openly discuss how much Ibufren they were taking "daily" while the Europeans looked on in somewhat shocked bemusement.

For me, painkillers to deal with incidents and accidents is fine, habitual use to ease my riding, not so. I'm not really one for taking medicines anyway, Ibrufen and paracetamol last month after breaking my collarbone would probably be the first time in five or six years that I've taken anything.

I'm not one for caffeine shots, neither would it seem is Dave Barter of this parish - https://phased.co.uk/tour-divide---the-finish/

I know I'm being uncharacteristically pedantic but the case of the British skier who unwittingly took a banned substance was the slalom skier Alain Baxter who won a bronze at Salt Lake City in 2002. He was feeling a bit snotty pre race and bought a Vicks Sinex from the local chemist thinking it was legal but the US formulation contained a trace amount of methamphetamine which showed up in his urine test. A EU bought Sinex would have been fine. His competition ban was overturned on appeal but not the disqualification from the race, he'd never got anywhere near the podium before or has since.