Critique my kit thoughts

[mattpage]

Looking at lightweight bikepacking kit for a few adventures planned for next year. My primary concern is weight and minimal pack size, but of course it must actually function in typical UK weather - but not full on winter.

So this is what I've been considering:

Borah Cuben bivy
As Tucas Sestrals quilt Apex 133
Karrimor X-Lite 3/4 mat (already have, but 325g, so could save some here?)
Wildcat Tiger seat bag
Wildcat frame bag, which I already have and its rather nice!



Unsure about bar harness, which drybag, etc.

I realise the cuben bivy has a net front, so I would consider trying to get something custom made to make it look more like the Terra Nova.

[FLV]

might be chilly on that mat with a quilt.

[Bearbonesnorm]

If you're relying on the bivvy without any other shelter, then I wouldn't get a Borah as it isn't waterproof. I think the TN Discovery-lite is about the lightest fully waterproof / breathable bag available. Other light options which are still waterproof but only just are Mountain Equipment Ion and Cumulus but I don't think either are quite as robust as the TN.

Any reason for a synthetic quilt rather than down? ... I know there's lots of scare stories about down getting wet but in reality a night spent in / under any wet bag is going to be horrible. Make keeping your bag dry a top priority and you'll save some weight and reduce your packsize by going down. I'd suggest a Cumulus Quilt 250 would be about right:

You'll need a decent mat if you're using a quilt ... a Neoair Xlite in small comes in at a shade over 210g and packs to nothing, it'll save quite a bit of bulk over the Karrimor you have.

[mattpage]

Synthetic was mostly chosen for warmth when wet as you mention.
I'd worry about getting it wet when crossing rivers and the like.

I hadn't realised the bivvy wasn't waterproof though - thanks for bringing that up. I thought it was just the head that wasn't.

Isn't the Neoair very noisy to sleep on?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Synthetic was mostly chosen for warmth when wet as you mention.
I'd worry about getting it wet when crossing rivers and the like.

I've never got a bag wet yet and that includes a few chest deep river crossings where the bike has pretty much been submerged, just make sure you're dry bags are in good order

Isn't the Neoair very noisy to sleep on?

Not really noisy, just a bit noiser than some mats. I think the first generation were actually worse than the latest ones ... but you'll be too knackered to notice.

[Taylor]

Synthetic was mostly chosen for warmth when wet as you mention.
I'd worry about getting it wet when crossing rivers and the like.

I've never got a bag wet yet and that includes a few chest deep river crossings where the bike has pretty much been submerged, just make sure you're dry bags are in good order

Isn't the Neoair very noisy to sleep on?

Not really noisy, just a bit noiser than some mats. I think the first generation were actually worse than the latest ones ... but you'll be too knackered to notice.

What Norm said.

There's no need for your down quilt/bag to be outside of the dry bag until it's ready to go into the bivi so shouldn't really be seeing any water. If it does YOU'VE done something drastically wrong.

I've a first gen Neoair and it's not noisy in the slightest. Never woken up thinking somebodies eating crisps next to my ear. Don't think the newer versions are any quieter though.

[rando nomad]

+1 on a down bag. My wife and I used to sea kayak a lot. We used down bags in dry bags, never an issue. We took down bags on our Iceland cycle trip this summer and made sure we had them very well secured in dry bags and never had an issue with them getting wet.

[mattpage]

Not really noisy, just a bit noiser than some mats. I think the first generation were actually worse than the latest ones ... but you'll be too knackered to notice.

Very good point :)

[Alpinum]

I know there's lots of scare stories about down getting wet but in reality a night spent in / under any wet bag is going to be horrible.

In my experience synthetic wins the wet night contest.
I got into a synthetic DIY quilt a couple of times this year in a rather wet/damp state. Repeated this 2 nights. Down would have been done entering the second night. It will take one-two weeks hangig up to completely dry.
Do this with a synthetic and if it's thin enough - 120g/m2 fill or so - it'll be dry by nothing but body heat.
Next to all my down sleep kit I do have one synthetic and it does have it's place, despite the small range of use.

That said, on 98 % of all my occasions beeing outdoors, down wins...

If you're looking to compare a 133 Climashield quilt to down, well I think that's more like 120 g of 850 cuin down or so.
I think the Astucas quilt is far too heavy for a +5°C rated synthetic quilt. It should be more like sub 400 g in my books. This rating in a decent shell (7D and 10D Nylon) with high qual down you're looking at something around 300 g.
Unless you're a cold sleeper.

I love the Neoair Xlite in short. I bought one of the early models (must have been about 2.5 years ago) and it slowly delaminated to a point where it bothered me (after a total of about 100 nights). I bought exactly the same one again. Works fine with my quilt too, but need to add, that my quilt has a rather long foot box.
I've never been bothered by the little noise the Neoair make - the very first gen (green one, not the Xlite type) was the loud one.

I like my tarp I set up with my bike, but if you're in a hurry or want the easiest possible set up, bivy bag's the way to go. A lightweight full size tarp and cords and pegs will most probably be a tiny little bit lighter - but I guess other factors will outweigh the small difference in mass.

[ianfitz]

get a standard borah (or similar) bivy and spend the savings on an alpkit bicycle 3.5 tarp and a 75cm pole from stu, then you dont ned to worry so much about your quilt or bag getting wet...

plus look in the phd winter sale if you want a top class light down bag - theres usually one in there.

[mattpage]

I don't want to go down the tarp route. IMO if you are carrying more than just a bivvy bag then you might as well just use a lightweight tent.

[ianfitz]

Having used lightweight tents, bivys and tarps I don't agree.

Tents are:

Heavier, need a bigger flat area to put up, not as good in high wind, more prone to condensation and a faff to put up/take down, shut you away from the natural outdoor experience you maybe went out there for.

A bivy is great in good weather but have you had to climb into one after a long day out (and before another!) in heavy rain?

I find the bivy and tarp setup can be much lighter and more adaptable. Sub 400g with pegs and line if you go down the cuben route. That will keep you dry and out if the wind all year round.

[psling]

Is this for use in a race situation or something more leisurely Matt? Like Ianfitz says, getting into a bivi bag in the pouring rain when you're already wet is a miserable experience and a tarp can make all the difference. Having said that, it's maybe surprising how few really-wet-for-several-days periods we actually get (can't believe I'm saying that given the weather we're currently experiencing!). If I'm going out knowing that rain is forecast I'll sometimes take along a lightweight poncho for changing under, sitting around camp in and rigging as a tarp.

[Ian]

Tarps do require more thought, and mental fatigue from a full day/days of racing can seriously impair your ability to erect it effectively, if at all.

The Terra Nova Discovery Lite Goretex bivvy would suit you Matt. I have one and you're shorter than me, so it should be fine.

[mattpage]

Is this for use in a race situation or something more leisurely Matt?

Just "race" use. I've got a Gelert solo and that does the trick for leisurely stuff.
Also, planning on getting a Alpkit bivvy for other stuff, mostly because they are cheap.

Stuff on the list above is just for, ride till you drop, sleep till you wake type stuff.

[mattpage]

The Terra Nova Discovery Lite Goretex bivvy would suit you Matt. I have one and you're shorter than me, so it should be fine.

Wouldn't find having a look at that sometime if that is OK, to check pack size and what its like?

[AlasdairMc]

If the Discovery Lite is big enough for you, and if you're shorter than Ian it will be (I'm taller and it fits me), then you should also consider the Moonlite if weight is of utmost importance. I used mine on the HTR and have used it on rainy bivi trips on its own without issue. Breathability isn't the best but it's still a great piece of kit.

[mattpage]

Would you consider using the moonlite without a tarp?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Would you consider using the moonlite without a tarp?

I don't know what the HH of the Moonlite is (can't find specs anywhere) but I'd be surprised if it were anymore than 1500mm which is 'only just' waterproof. The old style has a drawstring hood and the new one has a net top similar to a Borah, so if it's raining you'll have to flip them upside down .

They're very light and pack well but as a standalone shelter I'm not that convinced ... unless you could be certain of a dry night.

[Dan_K]

I've just got the 2014 version of the moonlite bag. I wouldn't use it for anything other than summer. It's too small to have a mat inside, I'm not convinced with the hood closure either. Feels very thin too. You'd definitely need a tarp with it if you were unsure of the weather. Pack size is tiny though.

For carrying as an emergency bivvy, adventure races and fast summer overnights, it will be fine. I wouldn't want it for anything else.

I've got a Rab Storm and a hunka xl as well. The hunka is heavy but probably the best of the 3.

[AlasdairMc]

Would you consider using the moonlite without a tarp?

Yep. I started out that way with it, first night was in light snow in early December. I would be reluctant to use it in the heaviest of rain, but in those cases I'd be looking for some natural shelter before bedding down.

It isn't overly wind proof though - if you're facing into the wind it gets cold if your bag isn't lofted, but having not experienced a windy night in my Discovery I don't know if it is exclusive to that bag.

[ianfitz]

I'd not even considered what you might be planning on using this for Mat! a full on racing set up is obviously different, i enjoy the esoteric nature of finding a good spot and getting a tarp up at the end of a days riding! but if you just need to collapse and then do it all again tomorrow then your needs will be different

I would chip in that a moonlight that I slept in (once, and once only - that was enough!) was in no way waterproof, neither the fabric or the hood arrangement, which features a large hole (same as a mummy sleeping bag) it did bead well at first but i was proper damp in the morning.

another 'properly' waterproof option is a custom snowyside from borah, if you ask john to make it with a cuben base and shorter than the standard 8 foot (!) is should come in around 350g with a cross zip, hood, mesh on the vent. that means you can keep the winged death out of it and if you attach some elastic cord t it can pull the hood over the zip so you'd be able to vent it even in a bit of rain - while staying dry. it would be an all year round bivy at a very decent weight. i did enquire about one some time ago, he quoted $240+shipping atthe time. in my experience he's very helpful and will make you exactly what you want.

[Ian]

The Terra Nova Discovery Lite Goretex bivvy would suit you Matt. I have one and you're shorter than me, so it should be fine.

Wouldn't find having a look at that sometime if that is OK, to check pack size and what its like?

You certainly can, Matt. Happy to talk you through my kit choices. Just give me a shout.

[Bearbonesnorm]

another 'properly' waterproof option is a custom snowyside from borah, if you ask john to make it with a cuben base and shorter than the standard 8 foot (!) is should come in around 350g with a cross zip, hood, mesh on the vent. that means you can keep the winged death out of it and if you attach some elastic cord t it can pull the hood over the zip so you'd be able to vent it even in a bit of rain - while staying dry. it would be an all year round bivy at a very decent weight.

Marc from Trekkertent was working on something very similar to this.

[ianfitz]

I was very close to ordering one but had a change of heart at the last and went with the cuben civy with an argon top for using with a tarp.