Missing the point?

[jameso]

These routes might not meet someone's definition of adventure but like it or not, 'an adventure trail' or 'adventure/gravel' means more people understand what it is. MTB has got so wrapped up in radness that another way to describe pleasant off-road terrain seems to have come about.

[RIP]

Awooga. Digression Alert:

I note that Mounty has sold an AK Tarpstar shelter round in Classifieds. Looks like a perfectly reasonable bit of gear, no problems with it at all, all fair and square.

However I would offer that it is also as misnamed as an 'Adventure' bimbly gravel path round a visitor centre . Obviously anyone's at liberty to call anything whatever they like, but conversely anyone else is at liberty to take the p1ss out of the name if they so wish. So I will .

It's not a tarptent (whatever one of those is) - it's a tent. It's got a fixed pyramid shape, and an inner, and it needs a pole. Apparently it can be pitched in lots of different ways. That'd be with the inner or, er, without it then. Like a tent. And while I'm heckling, it's not "ultralight" either. It's 500g. edit: woah, hang on a minute, it's 500g just for the fly, the inner's an extra 690.

So, m'lud, my accusation is it's piggybacking on the 'hardcore adventurer' reputation of tarps, similar to the 'Adventure Trail' discussion. The name's suspiciously similar to TrailStar too but whatever .

What next for the 'adventure' treatment I wonder?

[RIP]

'an adventure trail' or 'adventure/gravel' means more people understand what it is.

Nah, just the opposite, it's just left a trail (ho ho) of confusion in its wake. Up is down and down is up. Or possibly sideways. Goodness knows what yer visitor centre punter makes of it. Maybe we should stand at the entrance and do a survey . "Have you any idea what's being described here before you set off? Do you think you need to take emergency night out gear - surely it'd be foolhardy not to on an adventure - or just a pacamac and a banana? Or what?".

MTB has got so wrapped up in radness that another way to describe pleasant off-road terrain seems to have come about.

But that then means TWO descriptions have now been perverted. MTB might be seen as too hardcore/rad by somebody but that doesn't mean the trickle-down effect has to take place.

Oh, and if anyone's bored with this thread still going on - don't join in . When This Place stops a thread because it's gone on far too long or digressed too far or got too silly, then it's time to shut up shop.

[Bearlegged]

just a pacamac and a banana

Fairly sure there's more than a few BB200 entrants who'd take this approach if Stu didn't mandate minimum equipment.

[RIP]

just a pacamac and a banana

Fairly sure there's more than a few BB200 entrants who'd take this approach if Stu didn't mandate minimum equipment.

Rather like a banana can be dangerous in certain circumstances (" go on, come at me with that banana then" - M Python), so can downgrading important terms. If an inexperienced punter gets to equate 'adventure' with an enterprise that carries no risk they might find they are not then properly prepared when they sign up for an adventure which actually is an adventure and end up getting into difficulties. So what we've then done is facilitated a problem not solved one.

[AndreR]

'an adventure trail' or 'adventure/gravel' means more people understand what it is.

Goodness knows what yer visitor centre punter makes of it. Maybe we should stand at the entrance and do a survey . "Have you any idea what's being described here before you set off? Do you think you need to take emergency night out gear - surely it'd be foolhardy not to on an adventure - or just a pacamac and a banana? Or what?".

Steady sir!! You'll be chairing a "focus group" meeting before you know it if you're not careful! And what an adventure that would be!

[RIP]

"focus group" meeting before you know it if you're not careful!

Or a "workshop" ..

Shades of HHGTTG: 'We've got to find out what people want from fire[/adventure], how they relate to it, what sort of image it has for them.' The crowd were tense. They were expecting something wonderful from Ford. `Stick it up your nose,' he said. 'Which is precisely the sort of thing we need to know,' insisted the girl, `Do people want fire[/adventure] that can be fitted nasally?''. ‘Do you?’ Ford asked the crowd. 'Yes!’ shouted some. 'No!’ shouted others happily. They didn’t know, they just thought it was great".

[Bearlegged]

If an inexperienced punter gets to equate 'adventure' with an enterprise that carries no risk they might find they are not then properly prepared when they sign up for an adventure which actually is an adventure and end up getting into difficulties.

Mmm, I was thinking more the super-experienced folk who smash out a sub-20hr BB200, but it does work both ways.

[RIP]

I think we might have gone cross-porpoises there Legs. I wasn't quoting your quote, more riffing further on the pitfalls of mis-labelling something an adventure .

As ever, I've now confused myself too, so I'll get my coat .

[JackT]

Upthread I raised an eyebrow at the idea of “waymarked adventure” as a contradiction in terms. On reflection, is any ride that comes with a GPX just as waymarked, albeit digitally?

Which begs the question, if you’re following a GPX, especially if a GPX someone else has made for you, is it an adventure in the pure sense of adventure?

It may be a challenge or a test of endurance but that’s not quite the same thing as an adventure, right?

[jameso]

Nah, just the opposite, it's just left a trail (ho ho) of confusion in its wake. Up is down and down is up. Or possibly sideways. Goodness knows what yer visitor centre punter makes of it.

Chessington World of Adventures, Go Ape Adventure Park, adventure playgrounds etc .. plenty of similar named facilities in other activities?
I suspect the people responsible for the facilities would be at risk of lack of duty of care if they didn't waymark and warn users fully (excessively?) also.
Just can't imagine anyone really expecting a wild and unpredictable trip on one of these trails? : )

[jameso]

If an inexperienced punter gets to equate 'adventure' with an enterprise that carries no risk they might find they are not then properly prepared when they sign up for an adventure which actually is an adventure and end up getting into difficulties. So what we've then done is facilitated a problem not solved one.

Sounds like they found adventure in the end?

Whatever the branding applied to their actions or activity location I think people are either smart enough to do some planning ahead or they're winging it out of choice or lack of awareness. Same in most aspects of life perhaps.

[jameso]

Which begs the question, if you’re following a GPX, especially if a GPX someone else has made for you, is it an adventure in the pure sense of adventure?

It may be a challenge or a test of endurance but that’s not quite the same thing as an adventure, right?

Can adventure be in mind and not reliant on location? I'm not sure. I know I've felt far from my comfort zone while following a gpx, whether that's an adventure or a challenge is the Q as you say.

(interesting chat about the whole 'adventure' brand marketing thing)

[Bearbonesnorm]

adventure playgrounds

Perhaps caused more broken wrists and lost teeth than anything else

Which begs the question, if you’re following a GPX, especially if a GPX someone else has made for you, is it an adventure in the pure sense of adventure?

A good point Jack and certainly valid when you take in the element of 'unknown' and 'exploration' ... although, I believe a BB200 gpx will always contain an element of those things

Can adventure be in mind and not reliant on location?

I think the correct mindset can certainly help in that regard but that is perhaps influenced by expectations and prior experiences ... plenty of young kids happily have an adventure beneath the dining room table shrouded by an old sheet, yet as adults we probably wouldn't view it the same.

[boxelder]

Bet this was an adventure: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180980246/

[RIP]

Upthread I raised an eyebrow at the idea of “waymarked adventure” as a contradiction in terms. On reflection, is any ride that comes with a GPX just as waymarked, albeit digitally?

Which begs the question, if you’re following a GPX, especially if a GPX someone else has made for you, is it an adventure in the pure sense of adventure?

It may be a challenge or a test of endurance but that’s not quite the same thing as an adventure, right?

Interesting point; agree entirely! But then I don't possess a GTX turbo gizmo thingy and love paper maps so I would say that . In a similar vein, it's been my position that the regular conjuring up of more and more 'official routes' is getting out of hand as well. Let people discover their own adventure, they know where it is. Otherwise what have they really gained or learned? This is not to say we shouldn't provide semi-controlled facilities for people to try things out - trail/visitor centres are good for that. Did Amundsen have a GPX I wonder?

[Lazarus]

Which begs the question, if you’re following a GPX, especially if a GPX someone else has made for you, is it an adventure in the pure sense of adventure?.

Which implies the only way to have an adventure is to be lost and clueless about your whereabouts
Solo around the world, with a gpx, is now not an adventure but lost in your local woods is.

I dont see how a map makes it an adventure and a gpx makes it not. Both are just methods of knowing where you are, with one being massively more practical (and easier)than the other.

[RIP]

Which implies the only way to have an adventure is to be lost and clueless about your whereabouts

I don't think that implication follows really Laz - bit hyperbolic .

Solo around the world, with a gpx, is now not an adventure but lost in your local woods is.

Again a bit of fun hyperbole, but yes there's some truth in that statement rather than falsehood.

I dont see how a map makes it an adventure and a gpx makes it not. Both are just methods of knowing where you are.

I completely disagree - there's far far more to a map than simply "knowing where you are". My immediate reaction is it's really about knowing where you aren't. In fact, come to think of it, that one sentence neatly encapsulates my view on the whole discussion. An interesting digression worth pursuing if anyone has the stamina .

[Valerio]

I think it's great news that these trails have opened and are being advertised to get more people to try cycling.

The word "adventure" it's just used to make them sound cooler.
Not much else to say really....

What may look like an easy spin for some may feel like a proper adventure for someone else who has never cycled more than 5miles, and perhaps never on their own.

Im actually surprised the conversation is still going
It's all scalable and all personal. Otherwise unless one is discovering some new land or a new planet....is it really an "adventure"?

[RIP]

plenty of young kids happily have an adventure beneath the dining room table shrouded by an old sheet, yet as adults we probably wouldn't view it the same.

We certainly did didn't we . If only I could remember her name....

[faustus]

An interesting thread this, though really an appendage of the adventure thread. Slightly tangential/meta, but this put me in mind of a Raymond William's quote form The Country and the City: "Nostalgia, it can be said, is universal and persistent; only other men’s nostalgias offend." Stick with me...it speaks of how a concept that is attached to a particular word, is so powerful and freighted with a specific meaning to each person, that it inevitably leads to definitions that need defending, or other versions questioned. Precisely because they form a key part of somebody's personality or outlook. Nostalgia in the quote above can easily be transposed to other terms like 'adventure', 'nature', 'freedom', whatever.

[JackT]

https://youtu.be/s6IYA3reGvY?feature=shared

[Lazarus]

Quite alot of nostalgia going on here anyway for " how it used to be "
Maps, which I can use obvs ( as i am also an old man), are sinply a less practical *way of knowing your surroundings in the same way as carrying a full set of encoypledias is less practical than having an internet connected phone. Its just differemt ways to accomplish the same task.
I still think what you called hyperbole(often guilty to be fair) stand reg.. a gpx alone does not mean its not an adventure it just means you probably wont get lost


* my one is albulms v cd v digital. Still very much anaologue there

[JackT]

. a gpx alone does not mean its not an adventure it just means you probably wont get lost

My comment was less digital v analogue rather wondering whether following a GPX track was the same - in terms of “adventurousness” as following a waymarked trail.

Clearly there is following a track and following a track - if Scott and Amundsen had had GPS they would have used it to find their way to the South Pole and it would hardly have diminished the adventurous nature of their endeavours. But I don’t know myself if riding around King Alfred’s Way following the GPX would satisfy my own idea of an adventure, though I see that if you’d never been for a multi day bike ride it could well do.

[PaulB2]

Tangentially to the tangent, having a GPX doesn't stop adventure when the marked bridleway doesn't exist on the ground across a field of tussocks and there's a forest plantation with no visible paths across the only logical place for the bridleway to go.