sarn helen the old road

[Mike]

Right so I saw the book ian bought on welsh drover tracks and it looked like a good read. I cant put it down as its really interesting. It got me thinking about the sarn helen which ran across wales. I was wondering if it is possible to trace this old route and whether or not I could be followed on the bike. Its would make for a great route, I have been on parts of it up around betws but it would be good if we could link it up. So does anyone know any other parts that are rideable. I think theres some in South Wales?

[Ian]

Good book isn't it :)

The South Wales bits of Sarn Helen are the most defined of all I think, albeit very rough in places. Some regard Monks Trod as part of the SH, but I'm not sure whether or not that is accurate, despite it being generally along the right alignment. There are some bits near Brecon that are part of it, but not named as such.

I suppose a good place to start would be to map the positions of the Roman settlements in Wales, and link them with the most rideable direct routes.

[Bearbonesnorm]

The Sarn Helen is a real can of worms. I spent quite a few months researching it last year and there's lots of speculation and contradictions. The most convincing evidence I read was that the route tended to stay towards the west side of the country, didn't go anywhere near Brecon and finished in Carmarthen.

It links the main forts at:
Caerhun
Caer Llugwy
Tomen-y-Mur
Pennal
Trawsgoed
Llanio
Carmarthen

Even the name's open for debate, some say it's named after Lady Helen the wife of Emperor Macsen Wledig and others say it has links to the fact that Sarn is the Welsh word for salt and that part the route would have been used to transport salt from Cheshire.

I think it's impossible to say where the real route ran ... There's so many Roman roads in Wales many of which might have been off-shoots from the main route leading to outlying forts, etc.

You'd struggle to ride it all Mike ... the Romans had a bridge over the Dyfi estuary*

*Matt would be okay though ... he'd just bunnyhop it.

[Mike]

Hmmmm, sounds like id not find anything u haven't already stu?

[Charliecres]

What's this book? Sounds good

[Mike]

Ians put a pic of it on the postmans been thread

[Ian]

This one:


A great insight into the ways of the drovers and the old route they used. Sarn Helen predates the recent history covered in the book, but it does get a bit of a mention.

Stu, as far as I know, the Roman fort at Brecon linked to Sarn Helen via the track now known as Bryn Melyn. So Brecon to Neath can be done mostly off road.

[Bearbonesnorm]

If you fancy doing some digging about Mike, there's an ancient pilgrim route that ran from Holywell to St Davids. Some bits are fairly well known but others aren't. It certainly went via Bala and over Bwlch y Groes (Bwlch = pass, Groes = cross) and over towards Mach' before heading for either Strata Florida or Llanbadarn Fawr. The route was mapped in the 1600s but putting it into the modern landscape isn't easy.

That should keep you busy

[sillybigfella]

My wife's an archeologist and found this after a bit of digging.... :D :D

http://www.ldwa.org.uk/ldp/members/show ... Sarn+Helen

[johnnystorm]

Drovers road book £25 on Amazon. £8 on ebay. :D

Another good one is George Borrow's Wild Wales. Brilliant detail of C19 Wales, great to see how much is still the same. Resonates with me as I grew up close to where he lived.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wales


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1844940 ... X110_SY165


Or free on Amazon Kindle:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B005UG1 ... X110_SY165

[Bearbonesnorm]

Another good one is George Borrow's Wild Wales.

It's the only book I've read on the subject that I couldn't get on with ... I think Mr Borrows saw the people of rural Wales as some kind of spectacle or freak show.

Which might explain this

great to see how much is still the same.

[johnnystorm]

Oh yeah, you really have got to get on with his writing style. You can rest assured I don't think the people of rural East Anglia where he lived got off lightly either. His writings about Romany people are sympathetic, certainly by modern standards! Wild Wales is his best for me as A) I've been/lived in some of the places he visited and B) Some of his other books are full of staggering coincidences. I know C19 Britain wasn't as populated as it is now but thing's bumping into someone's Mum in Cornwall after meeting them in London is a million to one shot!

[johnnystorm]

.....my friend the Scotch policeman was not much out when he said that the people of Wrexham were the worst people in Wales

:?

[Ray Young]

.....my friend the Scotch policeman was not much out when he said that the people of Wrexham were the worst people in Wales

:?

My brother lives in Wrexham :x......... .

[johnnystorm]

You'll have to take it up with George & the scottish copper from Llangollen!*


*with help from Derek Acora

[Blackhound]

Arrived at g/f's a short while ago and she presented me with a s/h copy of that book! Looks a good read.

I had shown her Ian's film explaining I had been there with Stu & Gairy in 2012.

(Getting a few minutes on here as she makes us tea)