Other day I emailed AK about my headtorch which has been playing up. Thinking it's only 2 years since I bought it (for peanuts). They were swift in their response and even found the sale in their archives. Telled me nicely that 'is it the Muon that was purchase on such and such date of 2016.
What immaculate service and obviously I'll not be chasing up a repair as I'm out of the Alpine bond period. I responded with a 'can I send it back for recyling' and then realised what B-corp actually stands for.
Twas from them that one of the first 'high end' outdoor pieces of kit I ever bought, came. A dry bag which is almost 10 years old and still going strong. What a super duper company that we have on our doorstep...
I remembered that B-Corp status had cropped up a few times on here while I read this article on Brew Dog. It reminded me of the occasions that I'd been involved in the investors in people process.
BrewDog were in the news today due to a overegged marketing wheeze where they promised a chance of a solid gold can worth 15k to be found in a slab whereas the can is actually brass with 3 micrometer thick gold plate worth a trifling fraction of that.
johnnystorm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:30 pm
I remembered that B-Corp status had cropped up a few times on here while I read this article on Brew Dog. It reminded me of the occasions that I'd been involved in the investors in people process.
Don't get me started on Investors in People! We still have an IIP plaque at work somewhere from back when my employer achieved accreditation back in the late nineties (IIRC). It was trumpeted as a great achievement at the time and showed what a caring, sharing, enlightened organisation we were. Absolute bullsh*t, it made no positive difference at all, if anything making extra meaningless work for us all to do to justify it. It was just a badge for management to boast about.
I remember when I wrote the first post on this thread. I was so proud at being an investor in their business model.
Wonder if Bcorp has owt to do with no being able to 'I'm sorry'. Piece of poo brand IMO (now that I've had the privilege of dealing with them in a bit more depth). Pardon my language as I appreciate there's alot of good exp with them flying about.
PaulB2 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:01 pm
BrewDog were in the news today due to a overegged marketing wheeze where they promised a chance of a solid gold can worth 15k to be found in a slab whereas the can is actually brass with 3 micrometer thick gold plate worth a trifling fraction of that.
Ah, but it wasn't just the material cost it included the workmanship!
Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:02 pm
I'm not a drinker but BD always kind of struck me as another of those companies with good marketing and a mediocre product.
I think they started off on the right track, bombastic but with a genuinely decent product then were led astray by the $$$
Nah I think they started off with great PR and got found out.
You have to be bad to get ex employees writing letters not even planet X have managed that
Had the same kinda email back off Alpkit a few days back over a snapped in 2 places Exo Rail and was told when I purchased the item and that I could have 20% off another to which I declined as I prefer things that last a little longer than 10 outings
Leerowe76 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:05 am
Had the same kinda email back off Alpkit a few days back over a snapped in 2 places Exo Rail and was told when I purchased the item and that I could have 20% off another to which I declined as I prefer things that last a little longer than 10 outings
That's pretty disappointing. It shouldn't have broken like it did, the rail was clearly faulty
Richard G wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:48 am
Brewdog are a shitshow... but that's an aside, there are obviously a ton of properly excellent B-Corp companies.
Maybe, but the problem with that is an accreditation system is only as strong as the worst (least compliant) company it endorses.
Some of the labels you see on products are so watered down as to be pointless. FSC wood and Ethical Palm Oil are two obvious one that spring to my mind.
The little I know about B-Corp is causing me to put it in the same category already,
I just read through some of the B Corp blurb and it does sound somewhat familiar. From my quick scan it seems that B Corp itself is a business which makes me a bit suspicious about the whole thing. I suppose anything is better than nothing though and if aligning with them makes a business take ethical factors into account more it's not a bad thing. I can't help wondering whether it's just another marketing tool though. As for Alpkit, well their business model does seem to mostly involve sourcing cheap (but usually decent) products from China, rebranding them and selling them on at a profit, I wonder how much legwork is actually done in checking what the Chinese manufacturers are getting up to. I have quite a lot of Alpkit stuff and most of it is decent but I have had some issues with them and their products on a few occasions in the past and am not 100% convinced by the whole ethical, do good side of their image.
PLanet X * also source from China - can you see no difference in the business model of them and the business model of Alpkit**? You see no ethical difference here?
*For the record/legal point. I am not saying planet X is especially unethical I am just saying its a "normal" business that does not really consider ethical matters in the pursuit of profit
**FWIW some of the bikepacking stuff is handmade in the UK so I assume they do this when the market allows [ we all base decisions on price largely]
Lazarus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:28 am
we all base decisions on price largely
I"d push back against that a little. Having pointed out the potential ethical difference between those two outfits, choosing between them must bring an ethical assessment as well as a price assessment into one's decision.
Of course anyone who is skint will largely base on price, but the large number of people who aren't skint often bring ethics in. Also I don't think that, admittedly after a certain level perhaps, ethics necessarily adds proportionately more to the price.
Price is not the same as value and value can include ethics. I try to base my choices on value not price.
You know all this though, sorry .
Last edited by RIP on Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP
"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men" - WW
i dont think Amazon is so large because the UK public puts ethics before price - people do largely purchase based on price with cheaper almost always equating to better.
I also use ethics but I think its fair to say we are in the minority but movements like this, even if tinged with BS and corporatism , are better than nothing
I do see the irony in debating purchasing ethics on the internet.
How many data centres spewing out carbon did your message traverse? Which carrier did you use? What are their values and ethics? Where were the electronics sourced from etc etc etc. Really you should be making your feelings known on dried nettle paper written in your own blood.
I always hope that when companies go for these marques there is at least one person in there trying to do the right thing. Even if everyone else is a complete fascist, it's a small indicator of some good in the kernel. I know a lot of it is done for marketing but equally I've worked in corporates with some really good people campaigning internally to sign up to various initiatives.
Lazarus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:28 am
PLanet X * also source from China - can you see no difference in the business model of them and the business model of Alpkit**? You see no ethical difference here?
*For the record/legal point. I am not saying planet X is especially unethical I am just saying its a "normal" business that does not really consider ethical matters in the pursuit of profit
**FWIW some of the bikepacking stuff is handmade in the UK so I assume they do this when the market allows [ we all base decisions on price largely]
No, I absolutely see the difference in the two companies overall but you said it yourself, they both source from China (but then who doesn't these days) and I said above "most" of the stuff is sourced from China, not all (I have a custom Alpkit frame bag so I'm well aware that they make some stuff in house). I think what annoys me a bit is when Alpkit are held up as some kind of saintly (almost charitable) organisation when they're actually a business, maybe a more ethical business but still there primarily to make money. I've had a couple of issues with them in the past relating to their customer service when I found them to be less than satisfactory and while I still buy stuff off them (because as I said, most of it is decent) I don't regard them as any better than most other companies out there who are trying to do a good job. Decent but not exceptional in my experience.
Dave Barter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:55 am
I do see the irony in debating purchasing ethics on the internet.
How many data centres spewing out carbon did your message traverse? Which carrier did you use? What are their values and ethics? Where were the electronics sourced from etc etc etc. Really you should be making your feelings known on dried nettle paper written in your own blood.
I always hope that when companies go for these marques there is at least one person in there trying to do the right thing. Even if everyone else is a complete fascist, it's a small indicator of some good in the kernel. I know a lot of it is done for marketing but equally I've worked in corporates with some really good people campaigning internally to sign up to various initiatives.
I think most of us are to some extent hypocrites in that we may bang the ethical purchasing drum but still end up buying stuff that may have some connection to unethical practices at times (possibly unknowingly). It's such a complicated and interconnected world that we live in that it's almost impossible to avoid compromising your standards at times. I suppose companies who make any effort to be more ethical should be applauded but the whole Brewdog thing shows that it's not as simple as it may first appear.
Dave Barter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:55 am
I do see the irony in debating purchasing ethics on the internet.
How many data centres spewing out carbon did your message traverse? Which carrier did you use? What are their values and ethics? Where were the electronics sourced from etc etc etc. Really you should be making your feelings known on dried nettle paper written in your own blood.
GreenNet. It’s not perfect but better than others.
I’m using an iPhone but it’s second hand.
Anyone living an even vaguely ‘normal’ life has global impacts happen as a result of their choices.
I think the point you concluded on is a pretty good one though. The important thing is trying to make a difference where we can. Make decisions based on thought - not on the bottom line.
Jurassic wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:12 am
I think most of us are to some extent hypocrites in that we may bang the ethical purchasing drum but still end up buying stuff that may have some connection to unethical practices at times (possibly unknowingly)
There was an excellent programme about hypocrisy on R4 yesterday. The conclusion was the only people who weren’t hypocrites were people who openly admitted their hypocrisy
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