who rides Ti ?

[PaulB2]

Enigma make ti bikes in the uk just around the corner from my parents house

[Bearbonesnorm]

Enigma make ti bikes in the uk just around the corner from my parents house

I have visions of them sat on the footpath welding away as old dears with Roy Cropper shopping bags weave their way through .

[metalheart]

Late to the party (as always).

I’ve two ti frames. A Cotic SodaMAX and a Sonder Camino.

I did have a Cotic Soda for a while but it really didn’t get on with it (bought it as I loved my soul and thought into the just like the steel one but lighter and betterer....) so sold it on PDQ.

I had a SolarisMAX LS geo which completely reinvigorated my riding and looked at the limited edition SodaMAX and drooled. I hummed and Hayes, ummed and aaed until all the frames disappeared and felt gutted. Then a large popped back up again and I jumped on it. I’d been riding the ‘puffer route a lot so it was the obvious place for a shakedown test ride. Bike was more less identical (bar an upgrade to Helms as the low speed compression on the old XFusion forks was done by spring and I’m a FF). The first proper bit of singletrack after the fire road climb was enough to tell me that despite the significant cost to change it was ‘worth’ it for me. So o guess that one, particularly, is ride characteristic (rather than quality, which to me is too subjective a word).

I sold the SolarisMAX on to part fund the change but subsequently bought it back and built it up B+ as my bikepacker mule. When the first lockdown 5 mile travel limitation was lifted I headed up to Loch Einich (with Scotroutes) on the steel bike. It was an amazing day but I went out solo past Forest Lodge 7-10 days later on the ti bike and, once again, reaffirmed that, yes, this is the bike I prefer...

Before lifting of lockdown I ordered an Camino in AL flavour. Again I’d hummed and heyed and watched the large frames come and go. They came back in in mint so jumped on that. They were all on extended delivery times due to covid. The ti ride happened after and I’d a thread or two on the STW about a gravel frame and piemonster said he wished he’d gone ti (bar scrote attraction). So, just to rub his nose* in it I upgraded the frame to ti... (*may not be actually, factually correct). I had hoped it might come faster than the Al one (if I’d accepted sram it would’ve) but the GRX delay was the main factor in that. As there was the GRX delay (and I’d like to think I wasn’t a dick about things they gave me the 100£ discount they were offering to accept the sram option, so it made the upgrade cost around twice the combined Al and wheel upgrade cost). I’ve no idea if it’s better than the Al one but it sure is shiny!

[Jurassic]

So, just to rub his nose* in it I upgraded the frame to ti, I’ve no idea if it’s better than the Al one but it sure is shiny!

I had an alu Camino and now have the ti version. If I'm being completely logical the ti bike isn't really worth the extra money, the ride differences between the two are very subtle and the alu bike is just as capable but that's not the whole story. Despite the vfm argument against the ti version it's just a nice thing to have. I'd say if you can afford ti and fancy it then go for it but you're not going to get a lot more performance for your money. It'll be interesting to see whether the ti Camino lasts. The finite lifespan of alu frames could potentially justify the cost of titanium but then having read this thread (and other similar ones) it seems longevity is far from guaranteed. We'll see........

[PaulB2]

Enigma make ti bikes in the uk just around the corner from my parents house

I have visions of them sat on the footpath welding away as old dears with Roy Cropper shopping bags weave their way through .

My parents’ house backs onto the industrial estate where enigma are based but I prefer your version.

[sean_iow]

just wondering, easiest way to keep Ti looking tip top ?

Not been washed for weeks, maybe longer.



Gentle rinse with the hose to soften the mud and knock off the loose bits, sprayed with Eco bike cleaner, left for a minute, agitated with the old paintbrush I use (75mm but now more mushroom shaped from years of bike washing) and quick rinse with the hose. Took me 5 minutes at most.



I only washed it as I want to put the mudguards of and I didn't want to cable-tie them over the mud. It cleans off so much easier than any painted frame I've had.

[stevenshand]

are there any American built Ti frames ?

I had Sean Chaney (Vertigo Cycles) build me a Ti fatbike frame. Given that I'm a framebuilder, it was quite a jump for me to get someone else to build it for me. Especially someone on the other side of the planet. I couldn't recommend the process highly enough though and the finished frame was perfect. I don't think it's a cheap option however.

[HUX]

I have a Ti camino that I run both 700c and 650b and a Lynskey MT29 that I bought 2nd hand 3 years ago and is my main bikepacking bike. If money is no object check out Seven Cycles. Handmade in the US and the quality of the welding is amazing. Google 'seven cycles welding' and youll see what i mean. I had a Seven Axiom, beautiful machine!

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've never had a Ti frame* as I've never had the spare funds. However, I've never had the inclination either. Even if I had the required cash, I really don't think I'd buy one as I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.


*well, shut up then.

[pistonbroke]

I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.

You mean to say you've never had the trails come alive?

[Mariner]

Just been looking on the Stooge website and the 'normal' versions of the ti 29er long and short chain stay frames are not listed.
Anyway what I was looking for was the Stooge guarantee which I think is five years on ti?
Might be another consideration if contemplating ti.

[RIP]

I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.

You mean to say you've never had the trails come alive?

No but he has experienced "the legendary ping of compliant steel"

[ton]

i think my reasons for wanting a Ti bike are very different from most peoples reasons.

lightweight stuff is of no use at all when you weigh 20 stone plus.
any ride zing/ping/magic is lost when your weight kind of flattens the ride.

my sole reason for wanting Ti, is because i am trying to get to as near as possible to a zero maintenance bike.
and something unpainted should no scuff and mark, and therefore wont need much cleaning.
this, mated with a hub gear system should hopefully lift some of the hatred that i am finding about my cycling at present.

after 37 years cycle commuting, the dredge of maintenance has almost forced me to pack cycling in and take to driving a car.

[JohnClimber]

"who rides Ti ?"

Me for the last 14 years

[Alpinum]

I've never had a Ti frame* as I've never had the spare funds. However, I've never had the inclination either. Even if I had the required cash, I really don't think I'd buy one as I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.


*well, shut up then.

I've never had a Ti frame* as I've never had the spare funds. However, I've never had the inclination either. Even if I had the required cash, I really don't think I'd buy one as I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.

*well, shut up then.

There are situations where ti is actually going to be cheaper and easier to optain, than other materials.
When I wanted (no... needed) a custom frame, I had a look at different options (steel, alu, ti, plastic) and found that a custom ti frame from Waltly is not just the cheapest option, but also the most straight forward.

Some framebuilders here abouts think they know it all better, just because they've been making road frames for 30 years and occasionally a mtb frame. Then they ask for 3 x the price, of course, wages are very different, as are cost for living (compared to China). According to two frame builders, my fatbike is sub standard to ride. I wasn't surprised to find how wrong they were. So 'no thanks for your experience'. What I get is untreated steel on the inside. No ED treatment. 30 x heavier for 3 x the price. Yes, some rust on the inside won't kill a frame, not in 10 years. But it's ugly, it needs attention. I want to ride, not 'attend'

I found that custom frames through Germany (steel and ti), Russia (ti) and China (ti) was the easiest way. Then how about fabrication time lines and costs?
How about reputation and experience?
Waltly won. Obviously I did help alot that I had ridden a Muru (produced at Waltly - even says in the frame "numer") for about 6 years with no issue. I was confident Waltly can produce good stuff.

So, China wins. I'm not hypocrite enough, to not buy a frame from China, made by 'the poor, hungry, beat up and completely exploited welding soul'. Some may go 'strictly' by it (getting a local frame) and whilst they wait many months for a frame, they order parts (made under similar/same labour conditions to Waltly's), online by PC, tablet, notebook, laptop, mobile phone (again, same/similar conditions) from Amazon, Ali etc.

No but he has experienced "the legendary ping of compliant steel"

Ping?
My Moxie has some decent dents. But every time a rock hits the frame it's more of a "pong" than a "ping".

Perhaps my case is more about the legendary pong of complaining steel...?

[stevenshand]

i think my reasons for wanting a Ti bike are very different from most peoples reasons.

lightweight stuff is of no use at all when you weigh 20 stone plus.
any ride zing/ping/magic is lost when your weight kind of flattens the ride.

my sole reason for wanting Ti, is because i am trying to get to as near as possible to a zero maintenance bike.
and something unpainted should no scuff and mark, and therefore wont need much cleaning.
this, mated with a hub gear system should hopefully lift some of the hatred that i am finding about my cycling at present.

after 37 years cycle commuting, the dredge of maintenance has almost forced me to pack cycling in and take to driving a car.

If you're 20+ stone then I'd definitely make sure you get to ride whatever Ti frame you're thinking about before buying. Ti tubing is more flexible than steel tubing (in the same wall thickness/diameter). Most builders get round this by increasing tubing diameter but I can honestly say that every ti frame I've ridden has felt relatively flexible. This isn't always a bad thing but if I was a rider at the heavier end of the spectrum or wanted to be carrying any sort of load, Ti would be quite far down my list of materials unless I was going full custom and could spec specific tubes.

[RIP]

No but he has experienced "the legendary ping of compliant steel"

Ping?
My Moxie has some decent dents. But every time a rock hits the frame it's more of a "pong" than a "ping".

Perhaps my case is more about the legendary pong of complaining steel...?

Indeed. As I'm sure you've twigged, I put my statement in quotes because I'm gently taking the mickey out of some of the pretentious claims sometimes made by different fans of all the different frame materials . Even bamboo frame fans probably say things like they love the "way they can feel the frame rebalancing as the tiny sap remnants flow around it as they ride" and "the unique shape and ride characteristics of each individual frame created by the different cultivation techniques and terroir of the bamboo source" . Me, I just get on me bike and have a few larfs so my comments are irrelevant .

[In Reverse]

If you're 20+ stone then I'd definitely make sure you get to ride whatever Ti frame you're thinking about before buying. Ti tubing is more flexible than steel tubing (in the same wall thickness/diameter). Most builders get round this by increasing tubing diameter but I can honestly say that every ti frame I've ridden has felt relatively flexible. This isn't always a bad thing but if I was a rider at the heavier end of the spectrum or wanted to be carrying any sort of load, Ti would be quite far down my list of materials unless I was going full custom and could spec specific tubes.

Pretty much what I thought tbh.

Stainless might be a better bet Tony. Won't be cheap but will be beautiful...

[Bearbonesnorm]

There are situations where ti is actually going to be cheaper and easier to optain, than other materials.
When I wanted (no... needed) a custom frame, I had a look at different options (steel, alu, ti, plastic) and found that a custom ti frame from Waltly is not just the cheapest option, but also the most straight forward.

Ah but I'm not in need of a custom frame Gian, hence

I really don't think I'd buy one as I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.

[Alpinum]

There are situations where ti is actually going to be cheaper and easier to optain, than other materials.
When I wanted (no... needed) a custom frame, I had a look at different options (steel, alu, ti, plastic) and found that a custom ti frame from Waltly is not just the cheapest option, but also the most straight forward.

Ah but I'm not in need of a custom frame Gian, hence

I really don't think I'd buy one as I can't see what a Ti frame could do for me that a steel frame wouldn't.

All clear. Just sharing my experience which I thought was interesting since it's kind of the other way round only because I was looking at custom made frames.

way they can feel the frame rebalancing as the tiny sap remnants flow around it as they ride" and "the unique shape and ride characteristics of each individual frame created by the different cultivation techniques and terroir of the bamboo source

Wow... some fine words for the fun marketing thread.

the pretentious claims sometimes made by different fans of all the different frame materials

Yeah. Kind of boring.

i think my reasons for wanting a Ti bike are very different from most peoples reasons.

lightweight stuff is of no use at all when you weigh 20 stone plus.
any ride zing/ping/magic is lost when your weight kind of flattens the ride.

Having read Steven's reply I came to think about writing to you too, since I got a custom ti frame from Waltly to carry a total of about 150 - 160 kg (weight on the wheels, all included) and not feel soft. DM me if you're inclined to get a stiff ti frame, I'm happy to give you details of tubing etc.

[mountainbaker]

I love Ti, have been riding it for about 10 years, never damaged any of my Ti frames, I currently have a Pickenflick for groad duties that I really mistreat and it's fine.

I got a custom one made for Tour Divide in 2015 by Triton in Moscow, their workmanship is amazing and very reasonably priced, that frame has since done almost 25,000km, no issues. I have just taken delivery of a new custom from Triton which has a Pinion P1.18 gearbox, 68ª head angle and it just more fun. So far, I'm loving it.

The Tour Divide one has a great patina from all the bags that have been strapped to it over the years.

Divide one (when new)


Pinion one last week

[ton]

everything taken onboard people. cheers.

i have spoken to 2 suppliers in the states (where claim is king). and they both say their frames are fine with my weight.

mountainbaker, that pinion bike is fantastic. something similar is my aim.

[mountainbaker]

mountainbaker, that pinion bike is fantastic. something similar is my aim.

You wont be disappointed, the pinion takes a little getting used to, but now I love it. And make sure you read the guides on how to handle the belt, I ramped mine on to the chainring like you would with a chain, and it snapped within a week. Properly handled, should last nearly forever!

[ton]

You wont be disappointed, the pinion takes a little getting used to

sorry, i was meaning a internal gear set up, not a pinion specifically.

[FLV]

Pinion one last week

I really like the idea of a pinion. What made you settle on the P1.18 out of interest?